Suggestions for future use of Class 332s post-HEx

[Neptune]

Yeah that's the problem. Money.
If Northern electrified other lines, they could have used 331s on the the newly electrified lines, and use the 332s in the Leeds area working alongside 333s.

There just isn’t the need for 14 knackered old units which need shed loads of money throwing at them.

 

[59CosG95]

A 332 (or part of) was sighted on the back of a low-loader heading east through Peterborough (of all places) earlier today. Storage or scrap somewhere?

 

[Halish Railway]

A 332 (or part of) was sighted on the back of a low-loader heading east through Peterborough (of all places) earlier today. Storage or scrap somewhere?

Probably going to Ely where quite a few of the ex-GWR HSTs are stored.

 

[DB]

Probably going to Ely where quite a few of the ex-GWR HSTs are stored.

Ely is the Angel Trains storage site, so only if something has been agreed with them - so far as I know the 332s are owned by Heathrow airport.

 

[43096]

Ely is the Angel Trains storage site, so only if something has been agreed with them - so far as I know the 332s are owned by Heathrow airport.

Do Angel have exclusive use of the site? The site is actually owned by Potter Group, I think.

The 332s and 360/2s are owned by the Airport.

 

[JonathanH]

Conjecture but Angel Trains own the 333s so if they did want to investigate a 332 for component recovery, maybe they would take them to the Potter Group sidings for assessment.

 

[bussikuski179]

No they won’t.

As I understand it, the branches will be 375/3 (Maidstone West ways and Sheerness) and the 466 on the Bromley North shuttle will just have it’s toilet locked so you can’t have accusations of it not being handicapped friendly.

The Bromley North shuttle is short enough that even most disabled people wouldn’t need the toilet on it, being what? 10 minutes GP-BN? As long as the stations at either end have toilets.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2020 ==

Doesn't really make sense to me. The first units ordered in privatisation were the 168s so they don't get that, they are fairly standard EMUs with not much of interest.

Wouldn’t call them fairly standard, they have a completely different interior than most similar units.

 

[CBlue]

Wouldn’t call them fairly standard, they have a completely different interior than most similar units.

They're a 25kv AC EMU capable of 100mph. Apart from their small class size there is plenty standard about them in terms of design and capability.

Likely that they'll just go for scrap, being a microfleet at a time where there are plenty of other, better condition EMU's soon to be needing a home.

 

[samuelmorris]

They're a 25kv AC EMU capable of 100mph. Apart from their small class size there is plenty standard about them in terms of design and capability.

Likely that they'll just go for scrap, being a microfleet at a time where there are plenty of other, better condition EMU's soon to be needing a home.

Apart from not being fitted with signalling equipment suitable for use anywhere else in the UK?

 

[CBlue]

Apart from not being fitted with signalling equipment suitable for use anywhere else in the UK?

I'm well aware of that, it having been repeated several times throughout this thread as one of many reasons they won't re-enter service.

My point was from the perspective that they aren't "special" by virtue of being an EMU with a similar design and spec to many others in this country.

 

[samuelmorris]

I'm well aware of that, it having been repeated several times throughout this thread as one of many reasons they won't re-enter service.

My point was from the perspective that they aren't "special" by virtue of being an EMU with a similar design and spec to many others in this country.

But that's precisely the reason it's been brought up so many times. They are 'special' by virtue of being not just sub-optimal, but physically impossible to use without costly modifications. Special seems a perfectly reasonable, if simplistic, term to use.

 

[theageofthetra]

The Bromley North shuttle is short enough that even most disabled people wouldn’t need the toilet on it, being what? 10 minutes GP-BN? As long as the stations at either end have toilets.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2020 ==


Wouldn’t call them fairly standard, they have a completely different interior than most similar units.

All Bromley North services will be 4 car 465 operated by 1st Jan. The new monitors are gradually being commissioned this month.

 

[fgwrich]

Spares Donor aka “Christmas Tree” 332014 now cut up at Sims Group Peterborough.

 

[JonathanH]

It seems like 47749 is running to and from Old Oak Common depot today but the paths in both directions are for a light engine.
0Z47 0723 Leicester L.I.P. to Old Oak Common Emu Depot

Realtime Trains - 0Z47 0723 Leicester L.I.P. to Old Oak Common Emu Depot

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

0Z48 1521 Old Oak Common Emu Depot to Leicester L.I.P.

Realtime Trains - 0Z48 1521 Old Oak Common Emu Depot to Leicester L.I.P.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I assume that the locomotive is being used to shunt demic stock around the depot.

 

[JN114]

They’ve enough resources on the depot to shunt for themselves - only scrapped 332014 was wholly incapable of moving under its own power, and was instead moved by one of its sisters when it needed to go onto shed road 1 for removal by road.

More likely with route conducting not really being a thing at the moment, they needed to have a physical trip or two into the depot for familiarisation before turning up in future to drag whatever they’re there to drag away.

 

[DB]

Wonder whether any will be sold to Northern/Siemens/whichever ROSCO owns the 333s for parts recovery?

 

[DGH 1]

Wonder whether any will be sold to Northern/Siemens/whichever ROSCO owns the 333s for parts recovery?

I hope they don't scrap them all, I think that would be a shame.

 

[DB]

I hope they don't scrap them all, I think that would be a shame.

I expect they will all get scrapped - but there are lots of common parts which would no doubt be useful as spares for the 333s.

 

[Energy]

Wonder whether any will be sold to Northern/Siemens/whichever ROSCO owns the 333s for parts recovery?

Any useful parts will get salvaged when they are scrapped and Angel Trains/Northern can choose to buy them for 333 spares if they want to.

 

[DB]

Any useful parts will get salvaged when they are scrapped and Angel Trains/Northern can choose to buy them for 333 spares if they want to.

That's unlikely, unless it's arranged beforehand. Most scrappies will just pull them apart as soon as they arrive. The only one which goes in much for allowing removal and purchase of parts is Booths.

And the only units which most of the parts would be useful for are 333s - those two classes don't have anything else similar to them.

 

[Journeyman]

No-one is going to be interested in a fleet needing new signalling kit and new interiors, and nothing in common with any other fleets. The market is about to be awash with spare EMUs to standard designs, and anyone needing more units will have loads to choose from.

 

[D365]

I hope they don't scrap them all, I think that would be a shame.

Probably best to hold out hope for a Class 333 preservation effort in the future.

 

[DGH 1]

Probably best to hold out hope for a Class 333 preservation effort in the future.

That would be brilliant if one of those could be saved D365 I like them too.

 

[adc82140]

Any useful parts will get salvaged when they are scrapped and Angel Trains/Northern can choose to buy them for 333 spares if they want to.

If nothing else I bet those windscreens don't come cheap.

 

[The Ham]

No-one is going to be interested in a fleet needing new signalling kit and new interiors, and nothing in common with any other fleets. The market is about to be awash with spare EMUs to standard designs, and anyone needing more units will have loads to choose from.

Just out of curiosity, if a 333 and 332 were formed into one train would it matter that half of it didn't have the correct signalling kit (i.e. would the one with it be enough)?

I'm imagining that the answer is no as the front 4 coaches could pass a signal before the signalling kit had chance to kick in. Also I suspect that there fairly few services which would need to be run by trains that long where the 333's are currently used and too many platforms that would be too short.

 

[JN114]

Hypothetically, if the cab of the 332 was buried then the lack of TPWS would be mitigated, as it would be fitted in the leading cab - a Mk1 coach for example isn’t TPWS fitted but the loco or whatever is dragging it is.

But You’d need to box in both ends - so that would entail running 12/13 (4-333+4/5-332+4-333) - with 23m coach lengths that’s impractically long on almost any route, never mind Leeds/Bradford/Ilkley/Skipton. And the on train software on the 332 certainly cannot cope with units running in triplets, I suspect same applies to 333s. I’m also dubious they would actually work together - they have the same couplers, but some of the control electronics are vastly different.

 

[D365]

Just out of curiosity, if a 333 and 332 were formed into one train would it matter that half of it didn't have the correct signalling kit (i.e. would the one with it be enough)?

I'm imagining that the answer is no as the front 4 coaches could pass a signal before the signalling kit had chance to kick in. Also I suspect that there fairly few services which would need to be run by trains that long where the 333's are currently used and too many platforms that would be too short.

Indeed it would be ”no”. I’m not even sure they would be compatible at all in service.

 

[DB]

If nothing else I bet those windscreens don't come cheap.

Indeed, but they won't fit anything except for these two classes.

Not sure where @Energy gets the idea that soneone will automatically salvage parts and offer them for sale. This rarely happens with scrapped trains unless arranged beforehand by the ROSCO or operators of similar units - and in these cases any parts recovered will be for their own use, not for speculative sale.

 

[317 forever]

Just as some 319s are being repurposed as multi-mode 769s, it's a pity that the newer 332s could not have also been retained and repurposed.

 

[Energy]

gets the idea that soneone will automatically salvage parts and offer them for sale. This rarely happens with scrapped trains unless arranged beforehand by the ROSCO or operators of similar units - and in these cases any parts recovered will be for their own use, not for speculative sale.

Just assumed that these parts would have more value than as parts than as scrap so they would bother to salvage them.