Suggestions for future use of Class 332s post-HEx

[MarkyT]

I suppose one alternative option might be if an overseas railway is looking for some 25Kv emus at a "bargain" price ??

A kind of Arthur Daley of the used train market comes to mind...

 

[MarkyT]

Where were those Class 59s built, then?

OK Passenger rolling stock then! GWR De Glehn compound and Brown Boveri turbine locomotives excepted. Some other early steam was imported from the US as well, GNR and Midland come to mind. Then there were the various military locos of WW1 and WW2...

 

[Energy]

Clearly that wouldn't be the primary focus of any such exhibit. As a striking train design, which the 332 undoubtedly is, representing the first purpose-built mainline railway built for airport access, it could be fairly interesting I would argue, and the ATP thing could be included on a panel as part of the display context.

It may not be the primary but it is a major focus, museums need to keep people moving through the doors to make money so they can survive. Even a single car of a 332 (and any other train) is very large and takes a lot of space, if people don't have an interest in it then it just takes up space.

I don't think Heathrow would even want a 332 in a museum and would rather get the money from scrapping it, they obviously don't care enough to take good care of the units.

 

[TrainTube]

I think EMR should've took them for Corby services, they are more suited for longer distance than 360s and the Corby services would only need about 6 units max meaning they could run 8-10 cars sometimes.

 

[Energy]

I think EMR should've took them for Corby services, they are more suited for longer distance than 360s and the Corby services would only need about 6 units max meaning they could run 8-10 cars sometimes.

Less carriages, only 7 are needed but the 360s will operate in sets of 3 so they are 12 cars long, the 360s are perfect for these services as they are available, reliable and 7x3=21 which is the number of GA 360s.

 

[Domh245]

I think EMR should've took them for Corby services, they are more suited for longer distance than 360s and the Corby services would only need about 6 units max meaning they could run 8-10 cars sometimes.

Seeing as the reasons for them not being used on the national network outside of Paddington-Heathrow have already been covered in great detail, I'll just point out that the operating the Corby Services with 332s is a non-starter because of the 100mph maximum speed, and that's before considering that you'd also end up with on average shorter trains and that the interior would likely be ripped out and replaced anyway, negating the only 'advantage' they had over 360s in the first place.

 

[TrainTube]

Seeing as the reasons for them not being used on the national network outside of Paddington-Heathrow have already been covered in great detail, I'll just point out that the operating the Corby Services with 332s is a non-starter because of the 100mph maximum speed, and that's before considering that you'd also end up with on average shorter trains and that the interior would likely be ripped out and replaced anyway, negating the only 'advantage' they had over 360s in the first place.

They probably wont see another home then.

 

[MarkyT]

A kind of Arthur Daley of the used train market comes to mind...

 

[paulravuslante]

They probably wont see another home then.

Unlikely. They have been worked hard and a few years ago were withdrawn due to a structural defect which was possible to stem but not fix as far as I know.

 

[MarkyT]

Unlikely. They have been worked hard and a few years ago were withdrawn due to a structural defect which was possible to stem but not fix as far as I know.

Estimate in excess of 3 million miles on the clock. One careful owner.

 

[Energy]

Estimate in excess of 3 million miles on the clock. One careful owner.

"Careful", from what has been said Heathrow didn't take great care of the units.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Bit of a shame they've been treated badly but oh well, such is life.

 

[MarkyT]

"Careful", from what has been said Heathrow didn't take great care of the units.

I'm sure they were competently maintained, but the nature of their duties means they've been flogged to death, and it's possible there may have been some underlying weaknesses in design and construction that led to the earlier temporary withdrawal. That's not necessarily a maintenance issue. It's possible that a major rebuild could allow them a second life somewhere else, but unlikely as whole life costs could still approach that of buying new and the mods required perhaps might not be able to address some underlying weaknesses. The carbodies are particularly heavy for example compared to latest similar spec emus.

 

[D365]

Makes sense. But as they are an important part of the story of privatisation, I hope that a set is saved for the NRM.

A whole set? Good luck with just a driving carriage!

 

[43096]

Estimate in excess of 3 million miles on the clock. One careful owner.

Let's just nail this "flogged to death" one. They haven't been. Nothing like it.

The 3 million miles per unit looks about right, and it equates to an average daily mileage for each unit of about 375 miles. That is low - there's plenty of traction that does more (Class 91, Pendolinos, HSTs, good chunk of many other fleets). Availability isn't that high with 71% required (when 14 were available) and 76% now (with 332014 demic), which is much lower than almost every other passenger fleet.

They've actually had a pretty easy life.

 

[Neptune]

Let's just nail this "flogged to death" one. They haven't been. Nothing like it.

The 3 million miles per unit looks about right, and it equates to an average daily mileage for each unit of about 375 miles. That is low - there's plenty of traction that does more (Class 91, Pendolinos, HSTs, good chunk of many other fleets). Availability isn't that high with 71% required (when 14 were available) and 76% now (with 332014 demic), which is much lower than almost every other passenger fleet.

They've actually had a pretty easy life.

Certainly mileage accumulation is low. The big thing is the intensity of work during that mileage.

There is really nothing suitable for them once Heathrow goes over to the 387’s. This constant call for them to become 333’s and move north is nonsense. There is no work for them and even if there was the sheer amount of money required to allow it is unsustainable for a small non standard fleet over 20 years old.

 

[MarkyT]

Certainly mileage accumulation is low. The big thing is the intensity of work during that mileage.

There is really nothing suitable for them once Heathrow goes over to the 387’s. This constant call for them to become 333’s and move north is nonsense. There is no work for them and even if there was the sheer amount of money required to allow it is unsustainable for a small non standard fleet over 20 years old.

Quite a hard duty, with 10m or 11m turnround at T5, 8m at Paddington and fairly constant fast dashing between the two. They used to have a longer rest at Paddington, but manage the whole service from a single platform now. A round trip of 32 miles every hour for just over 18 hours a day gives around 600 miles daily, which is working each one harder than they used to with the longer layovers, but that allows a smaller fleet to be in service at any time so giving more time for maintenance on the others I'd guess.

 

[43096]

Quite a hard duty, with 10m or 11m turnround at T5, 8m at Paddington and fairly constant fast dashing between the two. They used to have a longer rest at Paddington, but manage the whole service from a single platform now. A round trip of 32 miles every hour for just over 18 hours a day gives around 600 miles daily, which is working each one harder than they used to with the longer layovers, but that allows a smaller fleet to be in service at any time so giving more time for maintenance on the others I'd guess.

600 miles daily, but they only need 8 units in traffic from 13 (62% availability!) so the average daily mileage per unit is still only around 370 miles.

Easy life compared to many other traction units. Just as one example: Class 91s have been running for 30ish years belting up and down the East Coast on daily diagrams of up to 1200 miles.

 

[37057]

The fact that they're EMUs too, means there's not an awful lot to wear out, surely? At least nothing that can be severely affected by intense working anyway other than maybe interior trim etc.

 

[JN114]

In the proper TT it’s 5, 1h15m Circuits, so over the day each circuit is 15 or 16 round trips, plus a couple miles each way to/from Old Oak, so 480mi on the 15 trip circuits, 512 on the 16s.

 

[BayPaul]

Also very few stops, so less wear and tear on brakes, doors etc. Quite possibly the easiest permanent diagrams (for the trains themselves) of any trains on the network.

Still no sensible thing to happen to them other than scrap (much as I like the idea of scrapping the end coaches and using the middle coaches to lengthen their Northern cousins, I understand that the brakes aren't compatible, so even this wouldn't be a single refresh job)

 

[T-Karmel]

Quite a hard duty, with 10m or 11m turnround at T5, 8m at Paddington (...)

Single platform operation in Paddington means use of both platforms in Terminal 5, therefore it is 8 mins in Padd and 26 mins in T5. Obviously I'm talking about 5 circuits and full timetable, not the current situation with trains every half an hour.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

In my opinion the class 332s should go to Northern and use them alongside the 333s. Because both the 332 and 333 are exactly the same thing lol

 

[Metal_gee_man]

In my opinion the class 332s should go to Northern and use them alongside the 333s. Because both the 332 and 333 are exactly the same thing lol

They are but they aren't, check the previous post for reasons but they aren't compatible anywhere on the UK network without money being thrown at them

 

[Neptune]

In my opinion the class 332s should go to Northern and use them alongside the 333s. Because both the 332 and 333 are exactly the same thing lol

Northern don’t need them though.There are enough EMU’s.

 

[hexagon789]

In my opinion the class 332s should go to Northern and use them alongside the 333s. Because both the 332 and 333 are exactly the same thing lol

One major drawback is the lack of AWS/TPWS on the 332s which precludes use off the ATP-equipped Heathrow Express corridor

 

[samuelmorris]

In my opinion the class 332s should go to Northern and use them alongside the 333s. Because both the 332 and 333 are exactly the same thing lol

If they could have, they probably would have. As stated above, not that simple.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

In my opinion the class 332s should go to Northern and use them alongside the 333s. Because both the 332 and 333 are exactly the same thing lol

Well played, that's some excellent low-key low-impact trolling. Four bites- Kudos!

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Yeah that's the problem. Money.
If Northern electrified other lines, they could have used 331s on the the newly electrified lines, and use the 332s in the Leeds area working alongside 333s.

 

[D365]

Yeah that's the problem. Money.
If Northern electrified other lines, they could have used 331s on the the newly electrified lines, and use the 332s in the Leeds area working alongside 333s.

You could throw all the money you want at the Class 332. Ordering more 331s would come out cheaper every time.