Suggestion: IC services post-Midland ML and Oxford - Bedford electrification

[adrock1976]

I have been thinking of the Intercity services that run along the Midland Railway in what type of service pattern could be had once the wires are up north of Bedford. Also, I have thought about it a bit more deeper when 2 other variables also come into play: the East - West Rail Oxford - Bedford section, and high speed rail reaching Toton and Sheffield. I feel that it would as a starting point to look at how these major projects interact with each other, as I feel that it would be tricky to look at each in isolation with no regards to how future services would interact with each other. Furthermore, I would like to state that these are just thoughts that have been bouncing around for a while now.

The London St Pancras - Nottingham and Sheffield services presently has 2 trains per hour to each destination, with an additional service to Corby every 60 minutes. However, it is not an even interval service, and when the timetable is looked at in combination with the XC services along the Derby - Sheffield Midland common section, it is noticeable in that there are three departures in the space of around 20 minutes, then 30 minutes for the opposite XC service, then 10 or so minutes before the cycle begins again. If there are going to be 4tph along a common section of route, timetable it so as to be every 15 minutes. Also, it is not quite clear (apart from Manchester via Trent Valley Railway) what else a future E-W IC service would look like.

Moving on, my service suggestions would be as mentioned below.

London St Pancras - Sheffield Midland

Every 30 minutes departing at xx:00 and xx:30, calling at Luton Airport Parkway or Luton Town (alternating every 60 minutes), Bedford Midland, Leicester London Road, Loughborough (alternating every 60 minutes, omitting Belper), Derby, Belper (alternating every 60 minutes, omitting Loughborough), Chesterfield, and Sheffield Midland. Additionally, one service to be extended every 2 hours calling at (perhaps Meadowhall Interchange?), Barnsley, Wakefield Kirkgate, and Leeds City. Furthermore, 3 journeys in each direction on summer Saturdays and Sundays to continue to Shipley, Skipton, Settle, Appleby, and Carlisle Citadel.

The opposite 2 hourly extension as an experimental service to continue to Meadowhall Interchange, Rotherham Central (or a re-opened Rotherham Masborough), Pontefract Baghill, and York. Obviously, for both of the extended services to operate, it would have to be cascaded bi-modal stock from the GWR as wires progress and are no longer required for those IC routes.

London St Pancras - Nottingham Midland

Every 30 minutes departing at xx:15 and xx:45, calling at Bedford Midland, Kettering, Market Harborough, Leicester LR, Loughborough, East Midlands Parkway, Beeston, and Nottingham Midland.

London St Pancras - Kettering

Every 30 minutes departing at xx:07 and xx:37, calling at St Albans City, either Luton AP or Luton (alternating), Bedford Midland, Wellingborough, and Kettering. Then 1tph continuing every 60 minutes to Corby, Melton Mowbray, Leicester LR, Market Harborough, Kettering, then as above in reverse to London, calling at the Luton station that was omitted northbound. The other 1tph to continue to Market Harborough, Leicester LR, Melton Mowbray, Corby, Kettering, and southbound to London, calling at the Luton station that was omitted northbound.

It is intended for this circular service to provide short hop connections, and for interchange to and from Nottingham services at Kettering, and interchange to and from Sheffield services at Leicester LR.

IC East - West Rail

Every 60 minutes Reading (or Redhill), calling at Didcot Parkway, Oxford, Bicester London Road/Town/Village/Whatever evil face of capitalism branding, Verney Junction (interchange with Metropolitan Railway), and Bletchley, with a portion for Manchester Piccadilly calling at Milton Keynes Central, Nuneaton or Lichfield TV (alternating every 2 hours), Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield, Stockport, and Manchester Piccadilly. The second portion to continue to York calling at Bedford Midland, Kettering, Market Harborough, Leicester LR, East Midlands Parkway, Toton Interchange (for HSR and Nottingham Tramlink), Chesterfield, a reopened Killamarsh West (perhaps re-named Halfway & Killamarsh), Rotherham Central (or a re-opened Rotherham Masborough), Pontefract Baghill, and York (obviously when the Pontefract Baghill route is wired, or maybe a use for bi-modal stock).

The above are my thoughts, and I have realised that the above suggestions would see 12 movements (6 in each direction) at London SP with 4 platforms, and with 7 passenger services between Bedford Midland and Kettering, so unsure if the suggested departure times would work or not.

Regarding Killamarsh West, I have noticed while looking on Google Maps that the Midland Railway runs through that area, and that it is next door to Halfway too. I have also noticed that both Halfway and Killamarsh are reasonably (if not heavily) built up areas, which may warrant the former Killamarsh West station to be reopened. I'm not sure if there has ever been any local efforts into getting it re-opened or not.

I fell that there are probably better suggestions and perhaps any local forum members could offer their own too?

 

[43074]

It wouldn't work from St Pancras as the xx:07/xx:37 would be caught by the following xx:15/xx:45 and there's a Thameslink departure at xx:04/xx:34. It's also far too complex; the Corby circular would never happen as its mooted for EMU operation, not bi-mode, and the faster of the two Sheffield services would no longer have a 2-hour journey time - although that is not as crucial with HS2. Your proposed alternating pattern at Loughborough/Belper would be unpopular because the Loughborough to the North flow has grown since it was enhanced to hourly in 2009.

What is it intending to solve and why are you using historical names?

 

[RPM]

Every 60 minutes Reading (or Redhill), calling at Didcot Parkway, Oxford, Bicester London Road/Town/Village/Whatever evil face of capitalism branding, Verney Junction (interchange with Metropolitan Railway), and Bletchley

Metropolitan Railway? Are you proposing some sort of time travel? There's zero call for a station at Verney Junction. It's in the middle of nowhere, and hasn't been a junction for many decades.

Oh, and do try to get over the Bicester Village thing.:roll:

 

[Blamethrower]

I will always endorse a change that gives Bedford more direct services to London. Although there is probably a reason for that, the amount of people from Bedford that use the fast services grows by the day and all are standing room only in the peaks now.

Can't add any more than that though as I'm lazy and can't be bothered to work anything out whilst I'm being paid to think for someone else

 

[westcoaster]

Don't think the St albans stop would work at all, can just see a super crushed service and nothing else. Plus it already has 8tph 4 fast and 4 slow.

 

[swt_passenger]

IC East - West Rail

Manchester Piccadilly to Basingstoke, via Trent Valley, Milton Keynes, and Bletchley. Has the advantage of being mentioned in an extant route study.

 

[adrock1976]

It wouldn't work from St Pancras as the xx:07/xx:37 would be caught by the following xx:15/xx:45 and there's a Thameslink departure at xx:04/xx:34. It's also far too complex; the Corby circular would never happen as its mooted for EMU operation, not bi-mode, and the faster of the two Sheffield services would no longer have a 2-hour journey time - although that is not as crucial with HS2. Your proposed alternating pattern at Loughborough/Belper would be unpopular because the Loughborough to the North flow has grown since it was enhanced to hourly in 2009.

What is it intending to solve and why are you using historical names?

Regarding the alternating Loughborough/Belper, Loughborough would still retain its hourly service to and from Sheffield.

The reason why I suggested Belper is that it is very tricky to do a journey from there going north. This would provide a direct service to Chesterfield at least.

Regarding historical names: There are 2 stations in St Albans - City on the Midland Railway, and Abbey on the branch from Watford Junction (London & Birmingham). Ditto for Bedford, as St Johns is on the line from Blechley (L&BR). I believe Leicester has 2 functioning stations - the present London Road (Midland Railway) and the Great Central that has regular services, albeit a preserved railway. I have seen some debateable suggestions for the site of Sheffield Victoria (GCR) to be brought back into use as a HS station, but that is for another thread. In Leeds, I believe the HS station will be at New Lane. Finally, Pontefract has 3 stations, with Monkhill being on the line to and from Knottingley and Doncaster, Tanshelf on the line to and from Wakefield Kirkgate, and Baghill being on the Midland Railway Intercity route to and from York.

Metropolitan Railway? Are you proposing some sort of time travel? There's zero call for a station at Verney Junction. It's in the middle of nowhere, and hasn't been a junction for many decades.

Oh, and do try to get over the Bicester Village thing.:roll:

I understand that the Oxford - Bletchley line crosses or meets the (former?) Met in that vicinity. Or am I confusing myself with Quainton Road?

The reason why I suggested that is because it would provide an interchange with services to and from Aylesbury from Oxford. I saw somewhere a while ago that there may be an extension of Aylesbury Vale Parkway services to Milton Keynes Central, and aspirations of Chiltern Rail to partially reinstate the Great Central Railway route north of Aylesbury Vale Parkway to Lutterworth. Not sure if that is still going ahead in the near future or not, as it seems to have gone quiet.

 

[swt_passenger]

I saw somewhere a while ago that there may be an extension of Aylesbury Vale Parkway services to Milton Keynes Central, and aspirations of Chiltern Rail to partially reinstate the Great Central Railway route north of Aylesbury Vale Parkway to Lutterworth. Not sure if that is still going ahead in the near future or not, as it seems to have gone quiet.

The former is a well documented and known feature of the EWR plans, and is shown on all their current descriptions of the line's services, and has been mentioned often in the previous EWR threads.

The latter is a historic proposal, one of a Chiltern list of options made during the early part of their franchise, and discounted some years ago by the subsequently agreed improvements in the Evergreen series. It should probably be forgotten about now...

 

[43074]

Regarding the alternating Loughborough/Belper, Loughborough would still retain its hourly service to and from Sheffield.

The reason why I suggested Belper is that it is very tricky to do a journey from there going north. This would provide a direct service to Chesterfield at least.

Stopping an InterCity service every hour at Belper just wouldn't add up when Derby is a short drive/local train journey away.

Regarding historical names: There are 2 stations in St Albans - City on the Midland Railway, and Abbey on the branch from Watford Junction (London & Birmingham). Ditto for Bedford, as St Johns is on the line from Blechley (L&BR). I believe Leicester has 2 functioning stations - the present London Road (Midland Railway) and the Great Central that has regular services, albeit a preserved railway. I have seen some debateable suggestions for the site of Sheffield Victoria (GCR) to be brought back into use as a HS station, but that is for another thread

But when discussing service improvements on the MML it is surely intuitive that the discussion is centred around the mainline stations in each of those cities rather than one at the end of a single line branch, the terminus of a heritage railway and a station closed for 40 odd years and with, lets face it, little prospect of reopening?

 

[edwin_m]

The journey from London to Derby or central Nottingham via HS2 changing at Toton will be no quicker and much less convenient than the existing direct services, unless the connection at Toton is exceptionally slick. London-Leicester will not benefit at all from HS2. Therefore I suggest it would be essential to retain the fast service from London to these three cities, rather than assuming that all the trains will make most of the stops.

 

[A0]

Additional Luton and Bedford stops are the last thing EMT services need. A good number are standing room only at peak from Kettering or Wellingborough, adding Luton and Bedford stops - when both have a lot of Thameslink services, merely exacerbates matters.

The Corby service needs to be every 30 mins stopping at Kettering, Wellingborough, Bedford, one Luton station at St P.

There then needs to be a service every 30 mins which runs fast to Wellingborough, then all stops to Leicester. Luton & Bedford passengers heading north can change at Kettering with minimal impact on journey time.

 

[RPM]

I understand that the Oxford - Bletchley line crosses or meets the (former?) Met in that vicinity. Or am I confusing myself with Quainton Road?

The reason why I suggested that is because it would provide an interchange with services to and from Aylesbury from Oxford. I saw somewhere a while ago that there may be an extension of Aylesbury Vale Parkway services to Milton Keynes Central, and aspirations of Chiltern Rail to partially reinstate the Great Central Railway route north of Aylesbury Vale Parkway to Lutterworth. Not sure if that is still going ahead in the near future or not, as it seems to have gone quiet.

Yes the Met did terminate at Verney Junction but that's not how Chiltern services will access the East-West Rail route. They will use the existing wartime chord at Claydon that was built to link the GCR main line with the LNWR Varsity Line.

The Chiltern Lutterworth proposal was never much more than a back of an envelope idea. It was last considered with any seriousness around 1999.

 

[The Planner]

They will actually use a new one more to the east, the original chord gets lost under HS2.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Any ideas for an MNML rewrite need (IMHO) - to be worked / timetabled from the London end as to get best fit on the fast lines with the crushed TLK services south of Bedford and to also sensibly work the platforming arrangements at St Pancras. (so that the present means of kicking stock out to Cricklewood for lengthy layovers - then bringing them back for a later train works - ideally with homogenous stock.

I do not think that Derby / Notts / Sheffield services should really be doing peak commuter stops south of Bedford ......and from observation the peak services are only having modest standing in any case.

Luton Airport Parkway is a much better catchment area than Luton Town.

Finally - the timetables should not be driven by flows such as M Harborough to Leicester

 

[RPM]

They will actually use a new one more to the east, the original chord gets lost under HS2.

Yes, you're quite correct. I'd forgotton about HS2.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Given how busy the MML is between Derby and Chesterfield its hard to see how you could have room for an extra stop at Belper once every two hours.

 

[A0]

I do not think that Derby / Notts / Sheffield services should really be doing peak commuter stops south of Bedford ......and from observation the peak services are only having modest standing in any case.

Luton Airport Parkway is a much better catchment area than Luton Town.

Whilst I agree with your sentiment, the challenge is the MML south of Leicester loses its 'clockface' timetable stopping pattern in the evening peak.

So relatively short journeys e.g. Kettering - Bedford or Wellingborough - Luton are made quite difficult because of the stopping patterns put in.

What I do agree with though is using Luton Airport Parkway rather than Luton.

Perhaps the solution for both Luton & Bedford is to have Thameslink only, EMT only and any train tickets as happens at MKC?

 

[edwin_m]

Whilst I agree with your sentiment, the challenge is the MML south of Leicester loses its 'clockface' timetable stopping pattern in the evening peak.

So relatively short journeys e.g. Kettering - Bedford or Wellingborough - Luton are made quite difficult because of the stopping patterns put in.

What I do agree with though is using Luton Airport Parkway rather than Luton.

Perhaps the solution for both Luton & Bedford is to have Thameslink only, EMT only and any train tickets as happens at MKC?

This will be exacerbated when the outer-suburban Electrostars now serving the route are replaced by high-density Thameslink stock. On the GN and south of London the longer-distance commuter has alternatives (even if involving a change en route) but on the Midland there is only EMT.

An alternative solution might be to stop only the Corbies at Luton/Parkway/Bedford, at least during the peak? These would probably be outer-suburban units every 30min, and could connect at Kettering for further north.