Sudden Brake Application on Skegness line

[MK Tom]

Wondering if anyone can explain this for me - on the approach into Skegness on Saturday, on the long straight section of former Lincolnshire Wolds Railway that comes before the hairpin bend, I was riding a 153+156 combination that made what I think was an emergency brake application in the middle of nowhere. I'm wondering if anyone knows why this happened? The driver had just revved up and applied power, and we were already doing a fair speed. About two seconds after putting the power on the brakes were slammed on, audibly grinding, bringing us to a standing stop in a matter of seconds. All onboard were shocked, people were saying 'have we hit something?' and words to that effect. The brake application was strong enough that everyone was thrown back as the train stopped.

I can't say for sure exactly where the location was but I didn't see any signals and it was immediately before a level crossing. The train was the 12:59 arrival into Skegness. We started moving again after about two minutes, and from thereon in everything was normal. 153 was leading. It was on the single track section.

Thanks to anyone who can provide an insight.

 

[michael769]

A trespasser is the most likely explanation.

 

[richw]

As you mention a level crossing, perhaps he spotted an obstruction or vehicle on the crossing that shouldn't have been there. Not sure the likelihood we will ever know really, unless its reported publically (unlikely unless you hit something)

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Did you hear a loud horn blast? If so, I'd also go with trespassers. It could be one of a hundred things though, I'm not overly familiar with the traction but even a pigeon flying into the coupler at the right/wrong angle can cause a brake application.

 

[MK Tom]

No horn no, I'd have heard it as I was about two seats from the front of the unit. An obstruction on the crossing seemed the most likely thing to me at the time. Pretty sure it was a half-barrier crossing. I'm not exaggerating the intensity of the application though. This wasn't the usual unexpectedly changed signal ''oops **** better stop'', this was a ''need train stop now'' moment. We must've gone from 70mph or so to a standing stop in 10-20 seconds. You could feel the whole consist rock forwards and hear the brakes grinding. Not squealing or anything but a scraping sound.

 

[Qwerty133]

someone having a fag in the toilet? (I have been on a 153+ 15x combination where this happened and it was on the line from skeggy)

 

[crispy1978]

A year or so ago something similar happened. The cause apparently that time was someone pulling the emergency handle on the train. Except there was no emergency! That was just outside Boston I think.

 

[High Dyke]

No horn no, I'd have heard it as I was about two seats from the front of the unit. An obstruction on the crossing seemed the most likely thing to me at the time. Pretty sure it was a half-barrier crossing. I'm not exaggerating the intensity of the application though. This wasn't the usual unexpectedly changed signal ''oops **** better stop'', this was a ''need train stop now'' moment. We must've gone from 70mph or so to a standing stop in 10-20 seconds. You could feel the whole consist rock forwards and hear the brakes grinding. Not squealing or anything but a scraping sound.

I can't find any reports of an unsolicited brake application approaching Little Steeping AHBC regarding the train in question.

The line speed at the location is maximum 60mph.

 

[evoluzione]

Might just of dropped the DSD.

 

[AlexS]

This wasn't the usual unexpectedly changed signal ''oops **** better stop'', this was a ''need train stop now'' moment. We must've gone from 70mph or so to a standing stop in 10-20 seconds. You could feel the whole consist rock forwards and hear the brakes grinding. Not squealing or anything but a scraping sound.

I doubt there's any difference between the two - if a signal changes aspect it's definitely a 'need train to stop now' moment :P

 

[MK Tom]

I'm guessing it must've been 60 then. Like I said, we applied power moments before the brakes came on, and were already belting along before that.

The unit involved by the way was 153357 with a 156 behind.

DSD?

And AlexS, yeah true enough, what I meant was this is like no brake application I'd experienced before, and I've been in plenty of situations where a driver has clearly been caught off-guard and suddenly needed to stop. The only experience I've had which is even close was where a Pendolino had an electrical fault and came to a sudden stand south of Bletchley. But this was a harder stop than that.

 

[BravoGolfMike]

It may well have felt different but that will be either because the train had better brakes than what you have felt previously, or previously the driver released the brakes just before coming to a halt in order to facilitate a smoother stop.

If it was unsolicited then there is no way to release the brake prior to coming to a stand so the snatching sensation as you stop is really noticable. Fact is, if a driver sticks it in full brake or if the train is brought to a stand for any unsolicited reason, the brake force (for the units you have mentioned) will be exacty the same save for natural fluctuations between units in the same class.

 

[Tomnick]

A trespasser is the most likely explanation.

Of the heavy brake applications that I've experienced as a passenger, two (and probably more) were the result of a passcom being pulled, one the result of a van on the line (which we then hit), three on the same train apparently resulting from a fault on the unit and one because of a TPWS intervention approaching buffer stops. Others that I can recall being told (first hand) or having some involvement in include a signal reverting to danger because of a fault, hitting a pheasant and - on a single occasion - a trespasser. Not sure, then, that I can agree with your conclusion that the latter is most likely, especially out in the rural Lincolnshire Fens!

 

[Lincoln]

Maybe someone mistook the passcom as a flush in the toilet!

I've known that to happen a few times :roll:

 

[edwin_m]

I've had many sudden stops on 15x units where the train immediately restarted and I've assumed this was just the Driver Safety Device being inadvertently released.

If there was someone/thing on the line then there would almost certainly be a horn blast and probably some delay before restarting as the crew would most likely need to investigate/remove whatever it was. Similarly a passcom activation would need the guard to come through the train and find out why it was pulled before the train would restart.

 

[TDK]

A trespasser is the most likely explanation.

The most likely situation here is that the driver had the windows open in this inclement weather and didn't hear the vigilance, this has happened hundreds of times over the past couple of weeks. It all depends how long the driver was at a stand. If it was for a few minutes then yes, it could have been something else however I would place my bet on the driver missing the vigilance.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But this was a harder stop than that.

15x's with tread brakes always stop very harshly even in step 1 with 1 bar in the brake cylinders with 3+ bar the stop is very harsh even to the stage where people could possibly get injured if they fall. It isn't anything unusual just an emergency brake demand, no big deal

 

[Kneedown]

Maybe a toddler (or adult!) in the loo wondering what the red handle does?
Maybe the electrical connections between the couplers briefly separating causing brakes to apply. Still a common problem on Sprinters although not as prevalent as it used to be.

 

[MK Tom]

Well we didn't stop for too long and the guard never came past where I was sitting while we were stopped (which was very close to the front cab). I'd guess it was a 2 minute stop or thereabouts. When we crossed the level crossing I couldn't see any tractors or anything so I don't think it was that. I didn't hear us hit anything and my photo of the front of the unit shows no damage or dead birds or anything like that.

The part I found weird was that the application immediately followed the engine being revved up. We accelerated for two seconds then slammed it on.

 

[driver9000]

The Driver may not have missed the Vigilance or let go of the DSD at all. It could be as simple as the couplers between the 153 and 156 losing brake continuity briefly. Something I have experienced a number of occasions in the past.

 

[A-driver]

Well we didn't stop for too long and the guard never came past where I was sitting while we were stopped (which was very close to the front cab). I'd guess it was a 2 minute stop or thereabouts. When we crossed the level crossing I couldn't see any tractors or anything so I don't think it was that. I didn't hear us hit anything and my photo of the front of the unit shows no damage or dead birds or anything like that.

The part I found weird was that the application immediately followed the engine being revved up. We accelerated for two seconds then slammed it on.

There are a huge number of things which can apply the brakes and whilst I wouldn't say it is common, it's certainly nothing unusual. If it got started again quickly then chances are that it was nothing interesting. A few realistic possibilitys have been mentioned such as missed aws/dsd/vig for what ever reason, possible quick loss of interlock, minor coupling defect, slightly under powered compressor, may even be the driver or guard accidentally knocking the brake into the emergency position-I once had a guard put his feet up on the desk in the back cab and knock the handle into emerg!

It may even be an unknown fault. I have had an unsolicited e brake application a couple of times and still don't know to this day what caused them. The brakes came straight off again, I called the box to report it and just carried on.

 

[edwin_m]

The fact it happened just as power was being applied suggests to me the minor coupling defect. Sometimes the engines on one coach respond before the others and this will put a bit of tension on the coupling, which could cause a slightly dodgy electrical connection to lose continuity and trigger an emergency stop.

 

[tinstaafl]

The Driver may not have missed the Vigilance or let go of the DSD at all. It could be as simple as the couplers between the 153 and 156 losing brake continuity briefly. Something I have experienced a number of occasions in the past.

This is pretty common on my company's 14x's too. Usually whilst crossing points. Interestingly, whilst it's obviously an emergency application, the units don't have to come to a full stop before getting a brake release again.

 

[Dieseldriver]

There are certain platforms at Waterloo where, if routed from them onto the Down Fast in a 159/158 there is a lower speed. This is due to a set of points which can (and has) break the continuity wire if traversed at 15mph.

 

[Chrisgr31]

I managed to complete the first 15 years of commuting without any emergency stops of the train, however in the last 2 years we have probably come to an emergency halt on more than 6 occasions on the Class 171s.

On one occasion caused by the driver having to stop as someone was chucking bricks at the train from a bridge, and on one occasion by someone pulling the cord. The other occasions have all been unexplained and as passengers we believed it to be a train fault, was certainly a train fault we all got kicked off at New Cross having not even made it that far before the brakes applied.

Invariably it seems to happen on the stretch between East Croydon and New Cross.

I used to travel with a train driver instructor and he said for a passenger the emergency brake coming on was a nightmare as you werent expecting it and would find your nose hard against the windscreen!

 

[Kneedown]

This is pretty common on my company's 14x's too. Usually whilst crossing points. Interestingly, whilst it's obviously an emergency application, the units don't have to come to a full stop before getting a brake release again.

Crossing points is a common place for this occurrence, also on straight track that isn't completely smooth at mid to higher speeds. We used to dread our last train back from Lincoln at night with 3 153's on. It was a cert you were going to come to a sudden halt 3 or 4 times. We found that if you reduced speed to 50mph the problem rarely manifested itself.