Suburban stock on long runs

[fowler9]

As someone who worked the Euston - Birmingham and Birmingham - Liverpool routes on 350's, can I point out the following...

Most passengers travelling end to end on the Eustons didn't give a tuppence what train turned up as they were far more interested in the fact they had a one way ticket for £6 (£3.95 with RC), an open return for £23 or a Groupsave on London Travelcards, none of which Beardy was offering. They all bring their own refreshments or dive off at Northampton for the layover.

The only complaints I ever used to get about the 350's, whichever mark, were about toilets being unavailable/flooded, air con being too cold (particularly in First),lack of luggage provision and sockets. Never once did anybody moan about 3+2 seating. Indeed many passengers liked the 3+2 as they used the '3' seats as a bed!

And of course the people that had been silly enough to pay for First. They didn't tend to be too happy.

Personally I have never understood the obsession with Pendelinos. I find them exceptionally cramped and uncomfortable with hard, bolt upright seating and no aisle space whatsoever. I avoid them and Voyagers at all cost and am happy to accept a change somewhere if it means keeping away from them.

At the end of the day a single 350/2 would be a suitable replacement for a 304 for on the Liverpool to Crewe service in this day and age. Two 350/2's per hour stopping at a large number of shacks is not a suitable replacement for a stopper to Crewe and a Fast beyond. Not allowing for the growth in passengers.

 

[DarloRich]

It seems there are no major problems with using commuter standard stock on Birmingham-London and the only person who objects is posting a load of unverified claims to try and back up his view.

The stats I've seen in the past indicate Euston-Crewe is LM's busiest route and that adding capacity to Euston services caused LM's subsidy to rise, so I've seen no evidence that Birmingham-Euston is profitable never mind LM's most profitable route. LM offering very cheap tickets on Euston services does mean they could be filling up trains and making a loss. In fact trains with 3+2 seating on Birmingham-London might be the only way LM can make a profit without having a load of people standing or withdrawing their cheapest Advance fares.

So in an effort to find consensus may we agree on the following points:

1. Neither of us like the 3+2 seating arrangement
2. Such a seating arrangement is not suitable for long distance travel
3. Intercity routes require intercity standard stock
4. TOC's require stock that is most suitable to meet the demands of their passengers rather than an ill defined mix
5. Until then the TOC will have to deploy its stock how it sees fit hopefully taking into account the wishes of the passenger
6. More people travel between Euston and Birmingham than between Liverpool and Birmingham
7. The trains used between Birmingham and Liverpool need to be better

 

[northwichcat]

So in an effort to find consensus may we agree on the following points:

1. More people travel between Euston and Birmingham than between Liverpool and Birmingham
   

With a caveat - the majority travel on Virgin services.

 

[DarloRich]

With a caveat - the majority travel on Virgin services.

Agreed