Suburban B coach sets

[Topgun333]

I'm trying to ascertain when the BR western region withdrew its Suburban B coach sets. I understand that most routes were taken over by the new DMUs but would any B sera have survived long enough to be diesel hauled?

 

[randyrippley]

I'm trying to ascertain when the BR western region withdrew its Suburban B coach sets. I understand that most routes were taken over by the new DMUs but would any B sera have survived long enough to be diesel hauled?

I can remember riding Yeovil Pen Mill - Taunton on a red non-corridor suburban set behind a class 22 in the last year the line was open. Also up to around 1966 two-coach red suburban sets were hauled by six-car dmu formations (2x3 car cross country sets) on busy Bristol-Weymouth summer weekends. They weren't through-wired for remote control, they were just tagged on the back of the DMU set. Climbing the gradient to Bincliff tunnel was slooooow.

 

[30907]

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=GWR+B+set&client=tablet-android-samsung&prmd=isnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwie64-mtebPAhUDQBoKHWbHCe4Q_AUIBygB&biw=1280&bih=800#imgrc=jKBfv8HIzYDeVM%3A

A quick Google threw up this picture of a D63xx with half a B set at Bodmin General in 1963.
I have seen other photos and would think the Helston branch might have seen a complete B set plus D63xx?

I am no WR expert, but one will be along shortly no doubt.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I'm trying to ascertain when the BR western region withdrew its Suburban B coach sets.

I don't think the London area had any of the D63xx engines. From memory of the time, it was a wholesale replacement of Auto Coaches and Compartment stock with what later became 117s and 121s.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Just out of interest why were they called B sets? Where did the "B" come from?

 

[martinsh]

I don't think the London area had any of the D63xx engines. From memory of the time, it was a wholesale replacement of Auto Coaches and Compartment stock with what later became 117s and 121s.

London did have some D63xx at a later date, for ECS workings to / from Old Oak Common.

 

[30907]

I don't think the London area had any of the D63xx engines. From memory of the time, it was a wholesale replacement of Auto Coaches and Compartment stock with what later became 117s and 121s.

The OP's label "suburban B sets" is perhaps misleading here. The classic B set, formed of 2 identical BCs, was more associated with country branch lines, while Paddington (etc) suburbans were, I think, semi permanent sets of 5 or 6 non corridors of similar vintage.

As you say, dieselisation was pretty complete on Paddington Suburbans early on.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just out of interest why were they called B sets? Where did the "B" come from?

Following up a hunch (from SR practice), a quick investigation suggests the GW used letters to designate set coaching formations. Because B sets could be seen almost anywhere, and were numerous AND distinctive, I hazard a guess that the label was far better known than any of the others.

 

[randyrippley]

If you read this thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/70103-the-suburban-b-set-coaches/ it would appear that different parts of WR attributed different meanings to "B-set"

 

[Controller1701]

I always thought it was a nickname gained from working in general the stopping services on the GWR. Express services used to run under class 'A' headlamps, stopping services ran under class 'B' headlamps.

It is noted that this is only a possible reason and not definate information.

Paul

 

[Bevan Price]

According to "Great Western Coaches From 1890" by Michael Harris, the last true B Sets were withdrawn in December 1963, some of the last survivors being used on the Wellington - Crewe line. Most other GWR design non-corridor coaches had gone by 1964, although a batch built at Swindon for LMR lasted into 1967. Pending dmu operation (or line closures), some non-corridor stock was replaced by corridor stock displaced from main line duties.

Unfortunately, Harris does not explain the origin of the name "B Sets".
(My own suspicion might be that it comes from "Branch line" sets.)

 

[Topgun333]

Thanks for all answers! Interesting topic with not much internet material.

 

[Taunton]

I can remember riding Yeovil Pen Mill - Taunton on a red non-corridor suburban set behind a class 22 in the last year the line was open.

According to "Great Western Coaches From 1890" by Michael Harris, the last true B Sets were withdrawn in December 1963, some of the last survivors being used on the Wellington - Crewe line. Most other GWR design non-corridor coaches had gone by 1964, although a batch built at Swindon for LMR lasted into 1967.

I think the last year of steam on the Minehead branch was 1963 (the Barnstaple line was a year later), but although dmus took over weekday services, there were four or six coach non-corridor compartment stock sets hauled by Hymeks which came out on summer Saturdays, at least in 1964 and 1965. They weren't BR standard stock, I would have said they were B Sets, although they could have been Hawksworth designs. For the rest of the week they sat in the west end sidings at Taunton, two rakes in a couple of north side sidings and one on the south side.

Also up to around 1966 two-coach red suburban sets were hauled by six-car dmu formations (2x3 car cross country sets) on busy Bristol-Weymouth summer weekends. They weren't through-wired for remote control, they were just tagged on the back of the DMU set.

The WR did this quite extensively, Swindon Cross-Country units in the 1960s on the likes of Cardiff-Hereford-Birmingham regularly had a Hawksworth corridor second tagged on the back. The dmu actually had to run round at the end. It seems that they preferred pre-nationalisation designs, possibly as, not being all-steel like the BR standards, they were a few tons lighter, which could be significant.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I think a few of them had a short period in non passenger use as guards accommodation on the first Freightliner services.

Or it may have been for the trials .....until of course the guard was allowed to ride in the rear cab.