Stuttgart project

[Ringo2112]

Just got back on a day trip from Nuremberg to Stuttgart They were working on Stuttgart 21 when I was there in 2015 and still are of course. Any idea when it will be done? From what I've read and seen, this is a massive, massive engineering project, almost like no other. And the costs keep going up I read.

 

[coppercapped]

Just got back on a day trip from Nuremberg to Stuggart. They were working on Stuggart 21 when I was there in 2015 and still are of course. Any idea when it will be done? From what I've read and seen, this is a massive, massive engineering project, almost like no other. And the costs keep going up I read.

I'd like to bring to your notice that the name of the city is spelt Stuttgart...

...and, yes, the work has been going on for ages and has not finished yet. It is connected with the construction of the new high speed line from Wendlingen to Ulm which opened in 2022 and a connection to the airport. For more information please look at this TV news report (in German) https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/deutsche-bahn-neubaustrecke-stuttgart21-101.html

 

[Ringo2112]

I thought I did spell it right in my thread. Someone changed it ( edited it)...Thanks for info. I wonder who edited my original post and spelled Stuttgart wrong. Interesting

 

[Cowley]

I thought I did spell it right in my thread. Someone changed it ( edited it)...Thanks for info.

I edited it (and let you know why via pm ).

Anyway let’s move on from the whole spelling thing now…

 

[duesselmartin]

that project seems endless. A partial opening is expected for December 2026. Full completion whenever I am afraid.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Essentially a German version of HS2.... New lines/tunnels all over the place. Be great when finished but it's a big one. And now some scope changes being discussed to eg retain some of the deadend platforms at Stuttgart (were due to converted to small garden and larger offices....)

 

[paul_munich]

I thought I did spell it right in my thread. Someone changed it ( edited it)...Thanks for info. I wonder who edited my original post and spelled Stuttgart wrong. Interesting

Stuggi would be the local dialect, so nothing wrong with it!
do you guys of another please where heavy long distance trains entering platforms from a 35 Promille ramp, we will see how it works out in practice...
Stuttgart is suffering from massive engineering works in connection with the ETCS implementation (Digitaler Knoten Stuttgart) in the greater area as well, so they are happy when it's over...

 

[nwales58]

German Wonkipedia has a much longer article than English - stuff it through your least hated machine translator if necessary - with the whole soap opera and multiple opening forecasts. Be prepared for half an hour's read.

In short, it probably was the right project for a different age. Too small is worse than the lateness but at least it is being built and fits into related schemes reasonably well so much less of a mess than of HS2 north of Birmingham.

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

The main points of the project:
- replacing the aboveground stub-end terminus with an 8 track underground through platforms
- new tunnels and tracks connecting the new station with the various lines entering Stuttgart, as well as new/moved stabling yards, and the new high-speed line via the airport to Ulm (partly finished since last year)
- around the station, some light rail, road and water tunnels had to be diverted and rebuilt
- new housing and parks are planned on the current railway land
- this + the existing S-Bahn tunnel are being equipped with ETCS Level 2 w/o signals and partly ATO
- new signalling means current trains are one-by-one upgraded resulting in old loco-hauled stock running as a replacement
- massively late and over budget (current estimate: December 2026 with some test trains earlier that year)
- massively controversial since violent clashes between protesters and police happened in 2010, and the subsequent close state referendum in 2011 that turned out in favour
- close to capacity already at opening
- the Gäubahn line (Böblingen/Singen/Zürich) will be unconnected to the new station for 7? years while the old line can't reach the new station and the new tunnel to the airport isn't ready yet. It's been replanned and the tunnel has not even started construction at the moment. Current timetable plans see Zürich IC and several RE in that direction terminate at Stuttgart-Vaihingen station in some suburb for those 7 years, with everyone asked to take the S-Bahn into town

Just like the Hamburg Elbphilharmonie and the Berlin BER Airport, this has become one of the big controversial construction projects that everyone has an opinion on.

The very uncomfortable and inconvenient station has been a meme for years. The long corridors through the construction site that lead from the platforms to the outside world and S-Bahn and light rail platforms have been dubbed "Fernwanderweg" - "Long distance hiking trail". Just as an example: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C-DMrnnsfLV

 

[AlbertBeale]

The main points of the project:
- replacing the aboveground stub-end terminus with an 8 track underground through platforms
- new tunnels and tracks connecting the new station with the various lines entering Stuttgart, as well as new/moved stabling yards, and the new high-speed line via the airport to Ulm (partly finished since last year)
- around the station, some light rail, road and water tunnels had to be diverted and rebuilt
- new housing and parks are planned on the current railway land
- this + the existing S-Bahn tunnel are being equipped with ETCS Level 2 w/o signals and partly ATO
- new signalling means current trains are one-by-one upgraded resulting in old loco-hauled stock running as a replacement
- massively late and over budget (current estimate: December 2026 with some test trains earlier that year)
- massively controversial since violent clashes between protesters and police happened in 2010, and the subsequent close state referendum in 2011 that turned out in favour
- close to capacity already at opening
- the Gäubahn line (Böblingen/Singen/Zürich) will be unconnected to the new station for 7? years while the old line can't reach the new station and the new tunnel to the airport isn't ready yet. It's been replanned and the tunnel has not even started construction at the moment. Current timetable plans see Zürich IC and several RE in that direction terminate at Stuttgart-Vaihingen station in some suburb for those 7 years, with everyone asked to take the S-Bahn into town

Just like the Hamburg Elbphilharmonie and the Berlin BER Airport, this has become one of the big controversial construction projects that everyone has an opinion on.

The very uncomfortable and inconvenient station has been a meme for years. The long corridors through the construction site that lead from the platforms to the outside world and S-Bahn and light rail platforms have been dubbed "Fernwanderweg" - "Long distance hiking trail". Just as an example: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C-DMrnnsfLV

If the new station will be up to capacity almost when it opens, is it not possible to keep the old station as well, for terminating trains? After all, the new station runs more or less under the old one, so an interchange is no problem. That way you get the best of both worlds - increased capacity and a through route.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The main points of the project:
- replacing the aboveground stub-end terminus with an 8 track underground through platforms
- new tunnels and tracks connecting the new station with the various lines entering Stuttgart, as well as new/moved stabling yards, and the new high-speed line via the airport to Ulm (partly finished since last year)
- around the station, some light rail, road and water tunnels had to be diverted and rebuilt
- new housing and parks are planned on the current railway land
- this + the existing S-Bahn tunnel are being equipped with ETCS Level 2 w/o signals and partly ATO
- new signalling means current trains are one-by-one upgraded resulting in old loco-hauled stock running as a replacement
- massively late and over budget (current estimate: December 2026 with some test trains earlier that year)
- massively controversial since violent clashes between protesters and police happened in 2010, and the subsequent close state referendum in 2011 that turned out in favour
- close to capacity already at opening
- the Gäubahn line (Böblingen/Singen/Zürich) will be unconnected to the new station for 7? years while the old line can't reach the new station and the new tunnel to the airport isn't ready yet. It's been replanned and the tunnel has not even started construction at the moment. Current timetable plans see Zürich IC and several RE in that direction terminate at Stuttgart-Vaihingen station in some suburb for those 7 years, with everyone asked to take the S-Bahn into town

Just like the Hamburg Elbphilharmonie and the Berlin BER Airport, this has become one of the big controversial construction projects that everyone has an opinion on.

The very uncomfortable and inconvenient station has been a meme for years. The long corridors through the construction site that lead from the platforms to the outside world and S-Bahn and light rail platforms have been dubbed "Fernwanderweg" - "Long distance hiking trail". Just as an example: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C-DMrnnsfLV

I have had cause to use it three times during the construction phase and each time it has confused me greatly! Although the last one was more because my sleeper was renumbered and retimed as much as the crazy temporary station layout.

I was always shocked it was only 8 platforms, will be interesting to see if they do keep some of the current platforms to compensate as has been mentioned but somehow doubt it.

Proof that it isn't just us who can't deliver big infrastructure projects!

 

[The exile]

If the new station will be up to capacity almost when it opens, is it not possible to keep the old station as well, for terminating trains? After all, the new station runs more or less under the old one, so an interchange is no problem. That way you get the best of both worlds - increased capacity and a through route.

Oroblem is - you then lose the opportunity to develop the surface railway land - which was one of the “city-planning” benefits to be gained- not to mention the financial loss from not selling / developing the land. AFIUI a slimmed-down surface station may now survive.

 

[Ringo2112]

The main points of the project:
- replacing the aboveground stub-end terminus with an 8 track underground through platforms
- new tunnels and tracks connecting the new station with the various lines entering Stuttgart, as well as new/moved stabling yards, and the new high-speed line via the airport to Ulm (partly finished since last year)
- around the station, some light rail, road and water tunnels had to be diverted and rebuilt
- new housing and parks are planned on the current railway land
- this + the existing S-Bahn tunnel are being equipped with ETCS Level 2 w/o signals and partly ATO
- new signalling means current trains are one-by-one upgraded resulting in old loco-hauled stock running as a replacement
- massively late and over budget (current estimate: December 2026 with some test trains earlier that year)
- massively controversial since violent clashes between protesters and police happened in 2010, and the subsequent close state referendum in 2011 that turned out in favour
- close to capacity already at opening
- the Gäubahn line (Böblingen/Singen/Zürich) will be unconnected to the new station for 7? years while the old line can't reach the new station and the new tunnel to the airport isn't ready yet. It's been replanned and the tunnel has not even started construction at the moment. Current timetable plans see Zürich IC and several RE in that direction terminate at Stuttgart-Vaihingen station in some suburb for those 7 years, with everyone asked to take the S-Bahn into town

Just like the Hamburg Elbphilharmonie and the Berlin BER Airport, this has become one of the big controversial construction projects that everyone has an opinion on.

The very uncomfortable and inconvenient station has been a meme for years. The long corridors through the construction site that lead from the platforms to the outside world and S-Bahn and light rail platforms have been dubbed "Fernwanderweg" - "Long distance hiking trail". Just as an example: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C-DMrnnsfLV

Yes, I got off my train and went to the left. I thought the walk down would never end. As a matter of fact, DB has a shuttle service ( like a golf cart) to take people up to the tracks. When I came back to station later, I came in from the other side and that was a much easier walk. I was actually dreading the first walk I did, but this one was much easier.

 

[Tester]

Yes, I got off my train and went to the left. I thought the walk down would never end. As a matter of fact, DB has a shuttle service ( like a golf cart) to take people up to the tracks. When I came back to station later, I came in from the other side and that was a much easier walk. I was actually dreading the first walk I did, but this one was much easier.

To the right from terminating trains is shorter, but open air. So left in rain/snow is sensible.

When using the 'to the right' route to get to the S-bahn, take the first steps down shortly after turning left at the front of the station. Much shorter than the signed route.

 

[nwales58]

Manchester would really really like an E-W cross-city tunnel with an 8 track underground through station linking into new fast lines at both ends and interchange with a N-S tunnel for local services.

Germany has large disaster projects delivered late, Britain barely has coherent projects (HS2 reduced such that the network benefits vanish, TRU developed incrementally at non-optimal cost/capacity so nothing learned from the uselessness of the Castlefield Curve).

 

[MarkyT]

I was always shocked it was only 8 platforms, will be interesting to see if they do keep some of the current platforms to compensate as has been mentioned but somehow doubt it.

Oroblem is - you then lose the opportunity to develop the surface railway land - which was one of the “city-planning” benefits to be gained- not to mention the financial loss from not selling / developing the land. AFIUI a slimmed-down surface station may now survive.

A sensible compromise. There was no way the complete surface station, its complex throat and all the associated carriage sidings would be kept in their entirety. The operational concept of the new through station is to extend most services across the city so dwells should be short with no long turnback layovers. A compact (say) 6 track terminus retained on the surface with a greatly simplified throat however could provide useful extra capacity especially for peak extras, and would still free up a lot of land for development.

 

[Backroom_boy]

I was always shocked it was only 8 platforms, will be interesting to see if they do keep some of the current platforms to compensate as has been mentioned but somehow doubt it.

Its going down from 17 to 8 platforms; but doesn't 8 through platforms more than equal the capacity of 17 terminal platforms?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Its going down from 17 to 8 platforms; but doesn't 8 through platforms more than equal the capacity of 17 terminal platforms?

Yes, I'd think so, but my concern was around future growth and the difficulty in expanding it.

 

[TRXsouth]

Does anyone know if the Stuttgart Hbf tower still has the project exhibition and rooftop viewing platform? If not, is there anywhere to view the current state of the works site?