Stupid place for Gateline.

[Pompey00]

The Gateline at Portsmouth harbour is in the worse place due to the fact ferry passengers travel and the gates have to be open quite a lot during the day meaning compliance is bad. And cannot be challenged about being ferry or not as we just have let them through but you get the odd few that say they’ve came off but there isn’t one there.

 

[zwk500]

Could you give a bit more context about where the gateline is in relation to the platforms, main passenger entrance and ferry entrance please?

 

[JonathanH]

Indeed, it should have been placed at the water end of platform 1 across the passage to platforms 2 to 5 with a fence along the side of platform 1 so that access could be maintained to the ferry terminal without needing to go through the gateline. Either that or access to the ferry terminal should have been put outside the station buildings using the route to the Gosport Ferry.

 

[swt_passenger]

Indeed, it should have been placed at the water end of platform 1 across the passage to platforms 2 to 5 with a fence along the side of platform 1 so that access could be maintained to the ferry terminal without needing to go through the gateline. Either that or access to the ferry terminal should have been put outside the station buildings using the route to the Gosport Ferry.

I reckon they should have extended P2 out with a lightweight deck and used it for the train services, with P1 closed and fenced off like you suggest. The other own goal was probably to have the ferry terminal entrance next to the end of P4/5, so everyone has to use the same area by the buffers.

As usual they ended up doing the bare minimum when the gates went in.

 

[Pompey00]

Could you give a bit more context about where the gateline is in relation to the platforms, main passenger entrance and ferry entrance please?

Could you give a bit more context about where the gateline is in relation to the platforms, main passenger entrance and ferry entrance please?

As you walk through the booking hall and turn right towards the cafe the Gateline is just after that. Really there should be a glass barrier going the whole way along and then Gateline should start where the platform 1 buffer is.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Oct 2022 ==

I reckon they should have extended P2 out with a lightweight deck and used it for the train services, with P1 closed and fenced off like you suggest. The other own goal was probably to have the ferry terminal entrance next to the end of P4/5, so everyone has to use the same area by the buffers.

As usual they ended up doing the bare minimum when the gates went in.

Yh so many ways it could of been better but they messed up so much and will loose so much money due to people claiming going or coming off ferry.

 

[zwk500]

As you walk through the booking hall and turn right towards the cafe the Gateline is just after that. Really there should be a glass barrier going the whole way along and then Gateline should start where the platform 1 buffer is.

Thanks

Yh so many ways it could of been better but they messed up so much and will loose so much money due to people claiming going or coming off ferry.

Is there any reason the Gateline could not be set to return tickets valid on the ferry?

 

[Pompey00]

Thanks

Is there any reason the Gateline could not be set to return tickets valid on the ferry?

Idk if swr could or would do it.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks

Is there any reason the Gateline could not be set to return tickets valid on the ferry?

If there were barriers at the right place then yes, they could even return all tickets. But it’s not that straightforward a problem to solve because as it is now people transferring between train and ferry don’t need to use the gateline at all, but from the outside of the building the station and ferry terminal are both accessed through the same gates. Also, I think tickets only valid on the ferry don’t work the gates.

 

[Pompey00]

If there were barriers at the right place then yes, they could even return all tickets. But it’s not that straightforward a problem to solve because as it is now people transferring between train and ferry don’t need to use the gateline at all, but from the outside of the building the station and ferry terminal are both accessed through the same gates. Also, I think tickets only valid on the ferry don’t work the gates.

The only way they can get in is if we let them.

 

[Starmill]

It would have been better value for money to just install those gates at another station and leave Portsmouth Harbour alone. Manual blocks on the platform itself could have been carried out nice and easily.

The only way they can get in is if we let them.

Indeed. People who aren't travelling by rail at all currently need to pass through the gateline which is something which should be avoided at all costs.

 

[zwk500]

Found a picture that absolutely demonstrates the OP's point and the very sensible suggestion to put a wall along the side and move the barriers round:

Railfuture | Ticket gateline furore

New ticket gates cause a furore in Portsmouth. Portsmouth Harbour gateline: pass down to the end and turn left to access the ferry terminal.

www.railfuture.org.uk

For reference, a station plan from National Rail: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stat...ons-made-easy/portsmouth-harbour-station-plan.

 

[JonathanH]

It would have been better value for money to just install those gates at another station and leave Portsmouth Harbour alone.

I imagine that SWR had to nominate a certain number of stations at which to install gatelines and saw Portsmouth Harbour as an easy option on the basis it was done. The fact that it was only relatively recently done (compared to Portsmouth & Southsea around the turn of the century) suggests that the ferry was seen as an issue.

 

[Pompey00]

It would have been better value for money to just install those gates at another station and leave Portsmouth Harbour alone. Manual blocks on the platform itself could have been carried out nice and easily.

Indeed. People who aren't travelling by rail at all currently need to pass through the gateline which is something which should be avoided at all costs.

But because where Gunwharf is located and how busy it gets they need the Gateline there just went wrong way about it by putting it in wrong place .

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Oct 2022 ==

Found a picture that absolutely demonstrates the OP's point and the very sensible suggestion to put a wall along the side and move the barriers round:

Railfuture | Ticket gateline furore

New ticket gates cause a furore in Portsmouth. Portsmouth Harbour gateline: pass down to the end and turn left to access the ferry terminal.

www.railfuture.org.uk

For reference, a station plan from National Rail: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stat...ons-made-easy/portsmouth-harbour-station-plan.

Thank you for that and exactly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Oct 2022 ==

I imagine that SWR had to nominate a certain number of stations at which to install gatelines and saw Portsmouth Harbour as an easy option on the basis it was done. The fact that it was only relatively recently done (compared to Portsmouth & Southsea around the turn of the century) suggests that the ferry was seen as an issue.

Surely they Should of worked around the ferry passengers and put it somewhere else as Gateline was needed there but it’s just in the wrong place.

 

[Nammer]

When I worked at the station I was told by a local manager that the original plan was to extend the glass panel/fencing down to the bottom end of platform 1, with the Gateline there. Any passengers going to/from the Wightlink terminal passing through the barriers could be monitored more closely at that point. But the cost became too prohibitive, so it was cut back to the current position, where the original ticket barriers were located.

 

[zwk500]

When I worked at the station I was told by a local manager that the original plan was to extend the glass panel/fencing down to the bottom end of platform 1, with the Gateline there. Any passengers going to/from the Wightlink terminal passing through the barriers could be monitored more closely at that point. But the cost became too prohibitive, so it was cut back to the current position, where the original ticket barriers were located.

What a short-sighted decision. If it was too costly they shouldn't have bothered putting them in at all. Do it properly or leave it alone!

 

[Nammer]

It was one of the franchise commitments (remember those!) to install a gate line at Portsmouth Harbour. So that is the reason it was done to appease the Dft.

 

[zwk500]

It was one of the franchise commitments (remember those!) to install a gate line at Portsmouth Harbour. So that is the reason it was done to appease the Dft.

Well then the money should have been spent to do it properly.

 

[Pompey00]

When I worked at the station I was told by a local manager that the original plan was to extend the glass panel/fencing down to the bottom end of platform 1, with the Gateline there. Any passengers going to/from the Wightlink terminal passing through the barriers could be monitored more closely at that point. But the cost became too prohibitive, so it was cut back to the current position, where the original ticket barriers were located.

It’s stupid they didn’t do it that way.

 

[Starmill]

But because where Gunwharf is located and how busy it gets they need the Gateline there just went wrong way about it by putting it in wrong place .

It's unlikely that gates could have been installed in any other way without spending significantly more money which was simply not going to be available under the gating budget.

 

[zwk500]

It's unlikely that gates could have been installed in any other way without spending significantly more money which was simply not going to be available under the gating budget.

Then they shouldn't have done it at all - and agreed with the DfT to drop the franchise commitment.

 

[Starmill]

Then they shouldn't have done it at all - and agreed with the DfT to drop the franchise commitment.

I agree that would have been better.

 

[Pompey00]

Then they shouldn't have done it at all - and agreed with the DfT to drop the franchise commitment.

Cause they way they’ve done it they lose loads of money due to the fact a lot people say they going/coming from ferry but have got off train.

 

[TEW]

It was one of the franchise commitments (remember those!) to install a gate line at Portsmouth Harbour. So that is the reason it was done to appease the Dft.

It was also a franchise commitment to install them at Teddington, but that got swapped to Hampton Court. It doesn't seem impossible that SWR could have suggested an alternative station getting ticket barriers instead.

 

[swt_passenger]

It was also a franchise commitment to install them at Teddington, but that got swapped to Hampton Court. It doesn't seem impossible that SWR could have suggested an alternative station getting ticket barriers instead.

I always thought Eastleigh would have been a suitable candidate…

 

[pompeyfan]

I always thought Eastleigh would have been a suitable candidate…

The lobby is really congested as it is, you’d probably only have room for 3 gates, 1 each way and an accessible gate. Shame really as the revenue blocks are really effective

 

[RPI]

Should have put them at Cosham instead! Get a lot more ticketless travel issues from there! I don't work down there that often but there are always ticketless people from the Harbour who have come straight from the boat and always a new ticket/money from Cosham!

 

[JonathanH]

The lobby is really congested as it is, you’d probably only have room for 3 gates, 1 each way and an accessible gate. Shame really as the revenue blocks are really effective

Three gates ought to be enough at somewhere like Eastleigh, although perhaps the stairs coming down into the lobby is the problem.

Should have put them at Cosham instead!

Cosham doesn't look easy to gate with the westbound platform not having enough space.

I dont know what the railway is going to do about stations it needs to gate, like Cosham but doesn't have the space.

 

[swt_passenger]

The lobby is really congested as it is, you’d probably only have room for 3 gates, 1 each way and an accessible gate. Shame really as the revenue blocks are really effective

I expect Eastleigh could only be realistically gated by significant changes to other facilities. For example the present ticket windows don’t help with gateline positioning, they’d be on the wrong side. But what if they were moved nearer the main entrance doors? They also scored a bit of an own goal when they moved the doors leading to platform 1, that reduced the usable area of the foyer so that it could be locked off at night, leaving the lift accessible from the platform.

 

[pompeyfan]

Should have put them at Cosham instead! Get a lot more ticketless travel issues from there! I don't work down there that often but there are always ticketless people from the Harbour who have come straight from the boat and always a new ticket/money from Cosham!

Cosham is still a bit rough although it’s improved. A lot of the issues come from the Paulsgrove and Wymering estates near Cosham. Highbury isn’t really an issue anymore. I’ve seen revenue blocks where fare evaders just barge straight through. I think a gateline would certainly encourage more to buy a ticket, but those intent on skipping the fare will find a hole somewhere else on the station (which could be said for everywhere).

When Fratton was barriered a lot of remedial work had to be carried out afterwards as it exposed a lot of issues that hadn’t been foreseen. I agree with others that Portsmouth Harbour should have had the partition on platform 1 extended the length of the platform (although I’ve seen kids squeeze through the blue railings) with a row of gates at the base of the buffer stops. That being said I thought there was also a ruling from sealink days that meant passengers had to have uninterupted access from train to boat.

 

[RPI]

Three gates ought to be enough at somewhere like Eastleigh, although perhaps the stairs coming down into the lobby is the problem.


Cosham doesn't look easy to gate with the westbound platform not having enough space.

I dont know what the railway is going to do about stations it needs to gate, like Cosham but doesn't have the space.

Yes I quite agree, we're just spoilt in that all our (GWR) services only stop at gated stations on that section with the exception of Cosham.