'Stupendous Incompetence' at DfT?

[dunks]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...fficiency-drive-that-cost-16381m-1128203.html

And are they a law unto themselves after axing Brighton/Gatwick services without a formal closure notice? yep.

 

[Pumbaa]

Absolute idiots. Little wonder some of us are rapidly losing faith in the ability of DfT.

 

[paul1609]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...fficiency-drive-that-cost-16381m-1128203.html

And are they a law unto themselves after axing Brighton/Gatwick services without a formal closure notice? yep.

I believe that the closure notice has been avoided by a XC sponsored parliamentary bus that runs on Tuesdays only from Acton Main Line to Wandsworth Road!

 

[glynn80]

Posted on se-gen a couple of weeks ago

Following the cessation of the Arriva Cross Country train service from
the 14 December timetable on the route up from Reading through
Kensington Olympia to Brighton has I am told caused a problem with
three sections of line no longer directly used by passenger trains.
Thus, to keep the "track rights" active, a "parliamentiary train"
or to be more precise a rail replacement bus service,is apparently
being run by Arriva XC.All vaild National Rail tickets accepted.
As XC trains no longer go east of Reading.I can only presume that
the bus will run empty for many years.I can't see much call for XC
passengers

Tuesdays only


Ealing Broadway 09.45 via Olympia 10.25 to Wandsworth Road 10.55
Wandsworth Road 13.15 via Olympia 13.45 to Ealing Broadway 14.25

Not sure which bus company/coach company run the service.

Regards

Bill


The follow up message stated it did infact run

Today it was operated by Tellings Golden Miller using Volvo B9TL / East
Lancs 6-wheel double-deck coach LJ58 GCK, with a printed destination
label in the windscreen and showing "Arriva Cross Country Rail
Replacement Service" on the destination display.

MW

I think the timings have been done delibrately to avoid them appearing in any National Rail journey planner as an option for passengers. E.g. on the outward from Kensington Olympia to Wandsworth Road the following is given:

10:25 Kensington Olympia to Clapham Junction 10.33 (Southern)
10.38 Clapham Junction to Battersea Park 10.41 (Southern)
10.45 Battersea Park to Wandsworth Road 10.47 (Southern)

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Why do they need to run this for? surely the tracks will come in use at some point.

Are these really necessary? surely you don't need to run a train just to keep the lines open?? What about closed freight branches, do they have a 150 going up them to keep the track there.....or am I missing a point somewhere?


cheers,

James.

 

[Mojo]

Why do they need to run this for? surely the tracks will come in use at some point.

On passenger lines, unless formal closure notice has been given, a service at least once per week must operate, hence the exsistance of many parliamentary trains (eg: Pilning, Stalybridge-Stockport) or replacement transport (eg: the (former) Watford West bus link).

 

[flymo]

I've heard of "Parliamentary" services before but as for this "Parliamentary rail replacement service" well that is just farcical.

Madness......Unutterable madness.

 

[Max]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5462099.ece

Interesting to see that The Times have picked up on this story. Frankly, it's a bit of a farce, and even more so that the service's existence wasn't even public domain information! Clearly the Dft are embarrassed to admit that the line is all but closed.

 

[glynn80]

It is ridiculous that this should be allowed to happen and I have put numerous FOI requests regarding this issue into the DfT so as to get a clearer picture of exactly what has happened.

 

[90019]

We should find out the capacity of one of the trains mentioned at the end of the article, and on one random journey, try and get that many people on it

 

[Mojo]

I think the timings have been done delibrately to avoid them appearing in any National Rail journey planner as an option for passengers.

I can't even get it to show on NR by either selecting "Direct services preferred" or by limiting the operator to CrossCountry only.

 

[Max]

Yesterday The Times decided to try to catch the ghost bus. At Ealing Broadway station, a ticket inspector denied that any such bus existed. When asked to check, he went into his office and returned three minutes later with a piece of paper headed: “Rail replacement bus. Internal document not for display or distribution.”

Clearly it isn't going to be in a journey planner - it's meant to be a secret!

 

[glynn80]

This needs to be challenged as you know exactly what will happen next. "There has been insufficient traffic on the route for it to be deemed commercially or socially viable to continue to be funded"

As Mojo has stated it isn't in any Journey Planner's or as I have checked anywhere in the 2500 National Rail Timetable pages. This service is advertised officially absolutely nowhere!

 

[Guinness]

If it's not Publicly Advertised in the Timetables or Journey Planners then surely it can't constitute a Parliamentary Train, therefore the service was withdrawn without the proper legal powers?

 

[P156KWJ]

On passenger lines, unless formal closure notice has been given, a service at least once per week must operate, hence the exsistance of many parliamentary trains (eg: Pilning, Stalybridge-Stockport) or replacement transport (eg: the (former) Watford West bus link).

the Watford thing - was that the link from Croxley to the junction?

 

[Pumbaa]

the Watford thing - was that the link from Croxley to the junction?

Yup.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

This is certainly not about incompetence but is quite deliberate. The regulatory and legal position here is very grey and perhaps would make a good test case. At least the argument about the Croxley bus connection was that the track was in too poor quality to use for even a weekly train. This won't be the case here. Although a 1tph Reading-Kensington Olympia had only limited market appeal, something more like Ealing Broadway to Croydon or Bromley stopping service at an hourly frequency might well attract more demand, particularly once the market knew about it. The track itself will remain for freight so a future pax service is not off the radar for ever!

 

[gingerheid]

Ghost trains were tried in Scotland when they wanted to withdraw the West Highland sleeper, and the courts laughed at it; said it didn't count as a service as they'd no intention of serving anyone (and those ones were actual trains and were included in the timetable.)

Wish they'd take the same approach in England. Brings the law into disrepute when the government is conniving at sticking two fingers to it

 

[metrocammel]

the Watford thing - was that the link from Croxley to the junction?

Of interest, when did this actually finish? If I remember rightly, at Croxley Green station there was a BR sign for years that informed people that there wasn't a train service, but if you wanted to get to Watford, you had to ring a number, and they would send a 'rail replacement taxi'. I think there's a fotopic with a picture of the sign in question somewhere. I assume there must have been a public enquiry and the line officially closed in the intervening years?

 

[First class]

Try the halton curve- no trains run in passenger service except for 3/4 summer saturdays quite early in the morning- in one direction only.

 

[glynn80]

Of interest, when did this actually finish? If I remember rightly, at Croxley Green station there was a BR sign for years that informed people that there wasn't a train service, but if you wanted to get to Watford, you had to ring a number, and they would send a 'rail replacement taxi'. I think there's a fotopic with a picture of the sign in question somewhere. I assume there must have been a public enquiry and the line officially closed in the intervening years?

This finished when the timetable changed in September 2003, I believe the map to the station was still left in the following addition due to a late removal of the bus service.

 

[me123]

Interesting article; I like that the section at the very end is clearly plagiarised from Wikipedia :roll: And some of the comments are laughable too. Someone's blaming it on Gordon "Prudence" Brown :?

But it's amazing that it exists. And even more amazing that no-one knew it existed, including the bus stations!

 

[Mojo]

Of interest, when did this actually finish? If I remember rightly, at Croxley Green station there was a BR sign for years that informed people that there wasn't a train service, but if you wanted to get to Watford, you had to ring a number, and they would send a 'rail replacement taxi'. I think there's a fotopic with a picture of the sign in question somewhere.

Don't know exactly when it stopped, but some people seem to think that it's still going. I definately remember though when it stopped appearing on the Journey Planner and in the timetable and there was even an announcement to the effect. Maybe it does still run.

http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk/Croxley_Green_line_1.html has good pics.

 

[glynn80]

The story was covered in the London Lite today

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...s'+that+never+picks+up+a+passenger/article.do

According to Gensheet, Five Live also picked up on the story and interviewed someone who had travelled on the service with one other passenger, that the driver is told to not expect any passengers and is given a video to watch while waiting at Wandsworth Road

 

[flymo]

the driver is [...] given a video to watch while waiting at Wandsworth Road

Wonder what the video is?

"Great Railway Journeys of the World"?
"The Titfield Thunderbolt"?
"How to Succeed at Business Without Even Trying"?

Seriously though, I would have thought there would be enough demand for a Cross Country service {train service that is} at least as far as Gatwick Airport. Even if only to/from Birmingham it could connect into the rest of the rail network.

 

[yorkie]

There is a good post about this fiasco at http://theticketcollector.wordpress.com/ (currently the first article).

It appears that the DfT have acted, at best, in a dubious way. And at worst, illegally. And they went against their own advice given 2004 when the SRA did the same thing. A well-researched article, worth a read.

 

[Waverley125]

it's not just this, there's lots of them. Watford Stadium, for instance, is overgrown and IIRC, has had its track pulled up. But every monday, once a month, stagecoach run a single decker bus past the station that, while it constitutes part of the regular service, is also a 'rail replacement bus'. So Watford Stadium is, officially, still open.

 

[glynn80]

it's not just this, there's lots of them. Watford Stadium, for instance, is overgrown and IIRC, has had its track pulled up. But every monday, once a month, stagecoach run a single decker bus past the station that, while it constitutes part of the regular service, is also a 'rail replacement bus'. So Watford Stadium is, officially, still open.

Err not since Sept. 2003 when the stations on the Croxley Green line were officially closed.

 

[yorkie]

http://theticketcollector.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/the-parliamentaryghost-bus-service-part-ii/

Looks like it is being re-instated.

DafT now saying the ghost bus was always a temporary measure. Does anyone believe a word they say?

I have to laugh at this comment "We are currently looking at demand in order to ascertain how frequent the train service over these sections of track should be" surely they should look at demand while the service was running?! And they've had years to look at demand! Why start now? And what are the chances that, after "looking at demand" they identify a huge demand to leave at some silly time like 11am on a Wednesday morning, or 11pm on a Saturday night or something daft like that!

 

[Techniquest]

Good news that, looking forward to seeing what happens!