Study to investigate re-opening Gobowen to Welshpool line

[transmanche]

Even a shuttle from Gobowen to Oswestry on the preserved line, using a 230, connecting with Wrexham-Shrewsbury services, would be useful

I think it's a perfect opportunity for a PPM.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Though, on certain threads on this website, you will be hard pressed not to think that indeed is the case....

Especially when Railwaysceptic posts......

 

[gazthomas]

The London-based Treasury may have a purse, but it has no money. That money comes from us and can only be used once. This week - so far - I have seen press/TV stories about the need for more public spending on: the NHS, Defence, Prisons, the Courts, rural bus services, mental health care, social care, social housing ...

Where does a rebuilt railway between Welshpool and Gobowen rank on that list of priorities?

A sensible voice. Amen

 

[Gareth Marston]

Here's the Torys road shopping list for Shropshire.

Dualling the A5 from Shrewsbury to Welsh Border.
A483. Bypass around Pant/Llanymynech.
A458 Buttington to Wollaston scheme.
Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
A new link road from the M54 to the M6

And no doubt a few others. That's easily pushing close to a £ billion.
£20 odd million toget Oswestry back on the network is a bargain.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

You mean like the Beeching acolytes ?

When I come across a Beeching acolyte in this forum, I'll decide then if they fit the description. So far, the people whose posts suggest they believe Dr. Beeching had the right approach in difficult circumstances, seem to look at the facts and think about them sensibly.

 

[yorksrob]

When I come across a Beeching acolyte in this forum, I'll decide then if they fit the description. So far, the people whose posts suggest they believe Dr. Beeching had the right approach in difficult circumstances, seem to look at the facts and think about them sensibly.

They seem to be incapable of learning from historys mistakes to me.

 

[yorksrob]

Here's the Torys road shopping list for Shropshire.

Dualling the A5 from Shrewsbury to Welsh Border.
A483. Bypass around Pant/Llanymynech.
A458 Buttington to Wollaston scheme.
Shrewsbury North West Relief Road
A new link road from the M54 to the M6

And no doubt a few others. That's easily pushing close to a £ billion.
£20 odd million toget Oswestry back on the network is a bargain.

Indeed. Reinstating a railway service along a comparatively short link between an existing line and a pretty decent sized town shouldn't be beyond the possibilities of a developed nation.

 

[Matt P]

This steps someway from the realistically possible (some form of regular Oswestry-Gobowen rail service) right over the more fanciful (Welshpool to Gobowen reopening) into the realms of pure fantasy. However if the money for the latter were available, why not spend it to realign the Shrewsbury to Chester line north of Baschurch onto a more north westerly route joining the remains of the Cambrian mainline just south of the Oswestry industrial estate. Re-double the line to Oswestry and double Oswestry to Gobowen, thus putting Oswestry firmly on the mainline. Perhaps we could go further and build a new line from just south of the A5 level crossing, running parallel to the A5 to bypass Gobowen, joining the Shrewsbury to Chester line roughly where the A5 currently crosses it to the north of Gobowen.

I promise to wake up soon....

 

[The_Engineer]

I have read the many posts on this thread with some feeling. I have strong connections with Oswestry, and often travelled to and from it by train as a young lad. I am just old enough to recall Oswestry in full steam operation, pannier tanks on the Gobowen shuttle, and the couple of years of DMU operation. My grandfather was a carpenter at Oswestry works until it closed.

Emotionally, it would be nice to see trains again at Oswestry. But I cannot see a good case for reopening even the Gobowen to Oswestry section. Others have pointed out the issues that would need to be overcome to get trains running again.

I would add that even when the line as open, travelling by train onward from Gobowen many people would use the car or take a bus from Oswestry. Given that Gobowen and Oswestry are so close, I cannot see much additional revenue arising from operating trains to Oswestry. I don't think the train would cover a small fraction of the operating cost, let alone contribute to the cost of reopening.

I really do think there are better battles to be fought, such as the long-fought campaign for a station at Baschurch. This would be a much better proposition.

 

[yorksrob]

I have read the many posts on this thread with some feeling. I have strong connections with Oswestry, and often travelled to and from it by train as a young lad. I am just old enough to recall Oswestry in full steam operation, pannier tanks on the Gobowen shuttle, and the couple of years of DMU operation. My grandfather was a carpenter at Oswestry works until it closed.

Emotionally, it would be nice to see trains again at Oswestry. But I cannot see a good case for reopening even the Gobowen to Oswestry section. Others have pointed out the issues that would need to be overcome to get trains running again.

I would add that even when the line as open, travelling by train onward from Gobowen many people would use the car or take a bus from Oswestry. Given that Gobowen and Oswestry are so close, I cannot see much additional revenue arising from operating trains to Oswestry. I don't think the train would cover a small fraction of the operating cost, let alone contribute to the cost of reopening.

I really do think there are better battles to be fought, such as the long-fought campaign for a station at Baschurch. This would be a much better proposition.

I sometimes have to get the bus to Wakefield for an onward connection by train. It's a bit of a rigmarole. An Oswestry - Shrewsbury rail link could be a benefit to the local area.

 

[The_Engineer]

I sometimes have to get the bus to Wakefield for an onward connection by train. It's a bit of a rigmarole. An Oswestry - Shrewsbury rail link could be a benefit to the local area.

There's an half-hourly bus service between Oswestry and Shrewsbury. I think the same to Wrexham. Given Gobowen is Oswestry parkway, for long-distance travel, my conclusions still stand. Local travel is well catered for. Rail service to Oswestry will not happen. Baschurch has much more chance.

 

[yorksrob]

There's an half-hourly bus service between Oswestry and Shrewsbury. I think the same to Wrexham. Given Gobowen is Oswestry parkway, for long-distance travel, my conclusions still stand. Local travel is well catered for. Rail service to Oswestry will not happen. Baschurch has much more chance.

I could get the bus to Leeds as well. I wouldn't choose it.

 

[The_Engineer]

I could get the bus to Leeds as well. I wouldn't choose it.

Your choice. You live in a very urban area, where train and bus already exist. Oswestry with a population around 17,000 is quite different. The potential use can't justify the expense of rail reopening.

 

[yorksrob]

Your choice. You live in a very urban area, where train and bus already exist. Oswestry with a population around 17,000 is quite different. The potential use can't justify the expense of rail reopening.

A miniscule amount compared to the mega-projects. This country needs to re-orientate itself towards local improvements

 

[DavidGrain]

Pedantry corner: The A5/A483 multiplex is not a dual-carriageway, so the speed limit is 60mph.

OK I was mistaken about it being a dual carriageway, it just looked like one in my memory. I have driven this road myself several times and the warning beacons are not very far away from the actual crossing.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

They seem to be incapable of learning from historys mistakes to me.

Yes, to you. Many of Dr. Beeching's denigrators seem to be incapable of learning from anything.

 

[The_Engineer]

A miniscule amount compared to the mega-projects. This country needs to re-orientate itself towards local improvements

Mega project return mega benefits. Trains to Oswestry will not. Priority needs to be given to those projects that give the big benefits. South East England will always need the most investment as that's where most of the population are. Fact of life, as much as that upsets me as a northerner....

 

[yorksrob]

Mega project return mega benefits. Trains to Oswestry will not. Priority needs to be given to those projects that give the big benefits. South East England will always need the most investment as that's where most of the population are. Fact of life, as much as that upsets me as a northerner....

By that logic, you wouldn't spend anything outside the South East.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, to you. Many of Dr. Beeching's denigrators seem to be incapable of learning from anything.

It's amazing that one can reveal the depths stooped to by the proponents of the closure programme to bring forward their ideology, yet the true believers gaze piously on, as though it were merely a test of their faith.

 

[The_Engineer]

By that logic, you wouldn't spend anything outside the South East.

No, you would spend proportionately less, and to projects with a reasonable cost-benefit ratio. Such as northern urban and inter-urban upgrades.

Oswestry would not wash it's face in cost-benefit. Bigger fish to fry, battles that can be won......

 

[transmanche]

There's an half-hourly bus service between Oswestry and Shrewsbury.

Which takes an hour. The train from Gobowen to Shrewsbury takes less than 20 minutes.

I think the same to Wrexham.

And the same is true for the train v bus journey time.

Given Gobowen is Oswestry parkway, for long-distance travel, my conclusions still stand. Local travel is well catered for.

The problem with local access to Gobowen is the poor bus service between Oswestry and Gobowen - down to just 2 bph and at times not generally convenient to meet the train. The inability to buy through bus/train tickets online/on an app/from a TVM doesn't help.

 

[yorksrob]

No, you would spend proportionately less, and to projects with a reasonable cost-benefit ratio. Such as northern urban and inter-urban upgrades.

Oswestry would not wash it's face in cost-benefit. Bigger fish to fry, battles that can be won......

Oswestry to Shrewsbury is an inter-urban upgrade.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Yes, to you. Many of Dr. Beeching's denigrators seem to be incapable of learning from anything.

At least we have maths skills unlike the Docter

Oswestry is an example of a closure that lost British Rail more money and this pathetic adherence that all his descuons were spot on you continually come up with bears no relation to the facts.

If you cared to look at them of course which you don't all you can do is spout weak generalisations. The gobowen shuttle was a worked example in the report and debunked by Calvert at the time. I place it in the 20% of lines that it was assumed the savings from closure and retained contributory revenue were greater than the break even/ small profit they were actually making. Dr Clueless assumptions about retained contributory revenue were all wrong which is why his solution failed to produce savings.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Indeed. Reinstating a railway service along a comparatively short link between an existing line and a pretty decent sized town shouldn't be beyond the possibilities of a developed nation.

Agreed.

 

[The_Engineer]

Oswestry to Shrewsbury is an inter-urban upgrade.

There's urban and then there's rural. Oswestry is a rural town.

Much as I love Oswestry this project is not viable, there are better battles to fight.

 

[yorksrob]

There's urban and then there's rural. Oswestry is a rural town.

Much as I love Oswestry this project is not viable, there are better battles to fight.

There aren't. This is about providing a short link to a decent sized town Gareth Marston has already outlined the very clear time differential between bus and potential train links to Shrewsbury.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

It's amazing that one can reveal the depths stooped to by the proponents of the closure programme to bring forward their ideology, yet the true believers gaze piously on, as though it were merely a test of their faith.

I'm not going to waste my time discussing the closure programme with you because you have a rigidly closed mind on the subject. I will however point out that there was far more to Dr. Beeching's strategy than just closing stations and railway lines that were very lightly used. Also, the merit or otherwise of the closure programme and the tactics B.R resorted to were two separate issues.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm not going to waste my time discussing the closure programme with you because you have a rigidly closed mind on the subject. I will however point out that there was far more to Dr. Beeching's strategy than just closing stations and railway lines that were very lightly used. Also, the merit or otherwise of the closure programme and the tactics B.R resorted to were two separate issues.

No, the merits of the closure programme and tactics resorted to by parts of BR and the civil service are intertwined. They thought they could get away with it in private because they knew their ideologically based position wouldn't bear public scrutiny.

I would recommend reading "Holding the Line, How Britain's Railways Were Saved" by Faulkner and Austin. You may learn something.

 

[Gareth Marston]

There aren't. This is about providing a short link to a decent sized town Gareth Marston has already outlined the very clear time differential between bus and potential train links to Shrewsbury.

The bus takes 55 minutes, AA routeplanner even concedes 40 by car and any through train reversing at Gobowen would be around 30. Were talking less than 2 miles of reopened line when the bay platform and junction with main line are still there and all the trackbed with track on it!

 

[yorksrob]

The bus takes 55 minutes, AA routeplanner even concedes 40 by car and any through train reversing at Gobowen would be around 30. Were talking less than 2 miles of reopened line when the bay platform and junction with main line are still there and all the trackbed with track on it!

It's a very compelling argument.