Student Railcards...

[Chilled Phill]

I've noticed something lately: I can no longer use my Railcard on Weekdaysm whilst Senior Citizens can still use theirs. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for senior citizens getting cheaper fares but why can't us younger travellers with railcards use them? This seems a little ageist to me...

Anyway, anyone know why I can no longer use my railcard on weekdays now?

 

[bluenoxid]

Because you don't know your T&C's. Read the website

You have a minimum fare restriction before 10am

Pensioners can start using it when the cheap day fares kick in.

 

[A60K]

I don't think anything's changed with regard to time restrictions, although changes in ticket types from Open and Saver etc to Anytime and Off-Peak might mean that a particular journey now has a different ticket type and a different minimum fare.

Generally though, you can use at 16-25 Railcard pretty much the same as a Young Person's Railcard, including on weekdays (subject to the minimum fares mentioned). Which journey exactly (day, time, ticket type, stations) can you not now get a discount on?

 

[me123]

Yes, you must pay a minimum fare of £8 (or £16 for Anytime Returns) for all journeys starting before 10am, Monday to Friday, excluding Bank Holidays and the months of July and August. The minimum fare has been on the 16-25 railcard since the start (I believe) and has been increased over the years.

Some people and staff (hock seem to think that the railcard is banned before 10am; usually because the prices they encounter are below the minimum fare. THIS IS WRONG. Therefore, if they refuse to accept the railcard as valid, politely point them to the terms and conditions. Thankfully for myself, a quick reminder of the rules has always allowed my valid ticket to be accepted but I'm sure some people have been done by this error in the past.

 

[Coradia]

It may have been something on conditiond for many years, I agree wth Chilled Phil in the fact that why do they do this 10am thing. Its daft considering that fact that cheap day (or off peak or whatever you want to call it) starts at 09:30 on majority of routes/services, so why make it valid 30 minutes later, and why should the senior railcards get it at 09:30? The whole point of cheap day and before 'anytime' is to target the commuters with higher prices, so what difference does it make having a valid card 30 minutes after cheap day, apart from passenger frustration.

 

[mrcheek]

they probably dont expect young people/students to even be out of bed by 10am, so it was assumed it wouldnt be a problem when the rules were introduced.
Senior citizens are all of course mad and get up at about 4 oclock every morning, so they need to be able to use their cards earlier.

 

[djw1981]

Or it could be to force students commuting to Uni to pay for a season ticket, even if only traveling 2 or 3 days a week (some days one may start after the peak, or have no scheduled classes and work at home etc)

 

[eos]

.......senior railcards get it at 09:30? .....

There is no time restriction on Senior Railcards, are you sure you are not thinking of 'bus and local travel passes?' . Some tickets may not be available until after 09.30 , but even if its a full price , peak time or whatever , Senior Railcard is 33% discount ( on almost all) tickets, the exception being some 'bus and train' or 'bus, train and tram ' rangers etc.

 

[Oracle]

Senior citizens are all of course mad

I'll tell my Dad, 80 that...he will probably admit that he is (at me for spending too much money!). My mum is 77 now and she is most certainly not mad. No 1 son is a Student and out of bed at 6.30.

I am entitled to a Disabled Persons R/C again. Are there any restrictions on its use please now? And, no, I am not physically disabled, and I am mad, and I do wake up at 4 am. My daughter works in a bakery so has to drive 21 miles to work.

 

[yorkie]

They should simplify all railcards conditions.

The minimum fare should be a more sensible time, like 0930, and it should be £8 or whatever for ALL ticket types, and it should apply to ALL railcards.

But ATOC are not interested in real simplification.

 

[me123]

Fully agree, Yorkie. The rules with the railcards are simply baffling: it took me about 8 months of regular travel to get my head around them and I've even been questioned about correct usage by staff! (I was told that railcards are not valid at all before 10am hock: this was quickly cleared up...)

 

[TEW]

The minimum fare should be a more sensible time, like 0930, and it should be £8 or whatever for ALL ticket types, and it should apply to ALL railcards.

I don't see the need for a minimum fare as with Peak fares you will be paying more anyway, I say just scrap it.

 

[yorkie]

I don't see the need for a minimum fare as with Peak fares you will be paying more anyway, I say just scrap it.

I don't disagree with that but ATOC would just refuse.

 

[Chilled Phill]

Now I'm even more confused. Not by your posts, all of them have been a great help.

However, the other day when I asked for a ticket the ticket lady asked if I had my railcard with me, I asked "Why couldn't I use it the previous days then?" and I was told it was because it was after 10. I then informed her this wasn't the case and that T&C of the card stated it could be used before 10am.

Don't get me wrong, I've known my ticketlady for a year now and she usually plays by the T&Cs of the railcard throughout last year. But it would appear someone "above" her, so to speak, is denying the use of my railcard because she couldn't get the ticket machine to accept the railcard discount before 10 the day after...I've e-mailed Northern enquiring about this situation and asked why this year is so different to last year for the railcard...

Once again, cheers for all your helped.

 

[metrocammel]

But it would appear someone "above" her, so to speak, is denying the use of my railcard because she couldn't get the ticket machine to accept the railcard discount before 10 the day after...I've e-mailed Northern enquiring about this situation and asked why this year is so different to last year for the railcard...

Once again, cheers for all your helped.

It sounds like she's giving you a bum steer there, ticket issuing systems in ticket offices do not have anything to 'disallow' the sale of tickets, due to time restrictions. I'm not sure how exactly FasTIS works (the TIS Northern use), as it may come up with an warning message that it is before 10am, but as long as you specify that you are travelling after 10am, she should be able to over-ride that message (and then, some assiduous clerks may write on the ticket that it is valid after 10am, though this seldom occurs) The only machines that are unable to sell railcard discounted tickets before the time they are valid are user-operated ticket machines (TVMs). This can be a bit of a pain for some passengers, who at 0959, cannot buy the 'correct' ticket for their journey at 1001 :?

As I say, this information is correct as of last Friday- when I bought at Y-P (non minimum fare) ticket at a Fujitsu Star TIS station last Friday at about 0800- though specified the time of my journey.

 

[Tom B]

This can be a bit of a pain for some passengers, who at 0959, cannot buy the 'correct' ticket for their journey at 1001 :?

I wonder what the TOCs expect people to do about this? Either they miss their train, or they end up buying a full fare ticket - wouldn't it be more sensible for machines to sell tickets earlier?

 

[class 313]

I wonder what the TOCs expect people to do about this? Either they miss their train, or they end up buying a full fare ticket - wouldn't it be more sensible for machines to sell tickets earlier?

TOCs will just want people to pay the full whack. FCC certainly does with its stupid fare system.

 

[me123]

The most logical solution would be as follows.

Say a train leaves for London at 08.53, the next one at 09.03. The CDR Off Peak Day Return becomes valid at 9am. From 08.54, that machine should be able to sell tickets to London, which therefore cannot be used on any train invalidly. In case the 08.53 is delayed, the machine should carry a message "Only for use on or after 9am" before the purchase is confirmed.

Of course, this requires each machine to be programmed for the particular station, and would require lots of work before this was available, but it allows you to buy valid tickets this way.

 

[class 313]

I swear the first off peak train is 0930?

 

[me123]

^Depends on the area. In Glasgow the CDRs start at 9am, elsewhere times vary. I'm just using a generic example.

 

[class 313]

Its stupid at the peak, the first train off peak is the 0930 off St Albans City. All well and good but you have all the rush, to find its only 4 car. Yay.

 

[Mojo]

I think it generally is, but it depends where you are, after all some Off-peaks are valid any time after the morning, whereas others have evening restrictions too. The same goes for Super Off-peak, if you're going from Birmingham Moor Street to Solihull a Super Off-peak (day) is only valid after 18.30 but if you're going to London Marylebone (possibly on the exact same train) then it's also valid at other times.

 

[metrocammel]

Of course, this requires each machine to be programmed for the particular station, and would require lots of work before this was available, but it allows you to buy valid tickets this way.

That was the reason given for it not being altered by the National Express manager I was talking to. Apparently, all TVMs are calibrated to a standard, and to alter the timings for each machine would require very expensive 'software' (in his words). And there is absolutely no way of altering times manually on the machines apparently.

 

[glynn80]

And why would TOCs pay extra to help passengers when they could just charge them more?

 

[me123]

I think it generally is, but it depends where you are, after all some Off-peaks are valid any time after the morning, whereas others have evening restrictions too. The same goes for Super Off-peak, if you're going from Birmingham Moor Street to Solihull a Super Off-peak (day) is only valid after 18.30 but if you're going to London Marylebone (possibly on the exact same train) then it's also valid at other times.

Yup. As I said, the Glasgow suburban CDRs are valid after 9am, but lsewhere does seem to be different.

 

[djw1981]

But you can buy a CDR on the Glasgow Queen St TVM any time IIRC. It warns you of the fact that "not valid by all trains" or words to that effect. The 'front page' shows SDR's until 0900 and then CDR's thereafter, but all the other options are available if you search by station instead of clicking a 'hotlink' on the frontpage.