Student nurse in trouble - Southeastern

[zaimade]

Hiii

Hope everybody is well. I’m a student nurse training in child nursing and yesterday I received a witness statement receipt from Southeastern rail for using an incorrect ticket.

I don’t have a lot of money due to being a student nurse and I don’t have student finance or anything like that so anytime I need to go to placement or school I would usually by an incorrect ticket and then use the Elizabeth line once I get to abbeywood.

The officer took my details and recorded the conversation and also asked me to be honest he emphasised that ill soon be a nurse and it would be easier for it to go in my favour if I was honest. He had asked if they called and went through all the fairs I had skipped would I be able to answer. I did emphasise the fact that I am not a thief and it’s just the current situation of things that I can barely afford to stay in school at the moment.

This morning I have bought a rail card and have started using it even though it is still ridiculously expensive I was hoping maybe this would show as evidence of me wanting to do the right thing

I am just very worried that this will go to court as a nurse I can’t have a criminal record and that is my biggest fear at the moment. I called the drp line and they said I would receive a letter asking to explain my side and then I’d receive a letter of them saying whether they would take it to court or not. I couldn’t afford £50 a week on rail fairs so I definitely can’t afford a lawyer. Is there any advice on this ? It would be much appreciated

I’d also like to add that I have an outstanding fine for the same issue but I literally couldn’t afford to pay it.


Kind regards

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

We really need to know more about what you've been doing to be able to give appropriate advice. Which stations were you travelling between? Exactly whattickets were you using? How were these tickets purchased?

Based on what you've told us, Southeastern are entotled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court of they want to. Normally, they will offer an out of court to people who co-operate with them, and who haven't come to their attention before. The problem you've got is you have come to their attention before, and still haven't settled that. Exactly what happened last time - when you say you were given a fine was this at a court? A Penalty Fare? Or an out of court settlement following details being taken? Although not impossible, it will make keeping the matter out of court much more difficult. The first thing you should try and do is pay what is owed from the first case so at least this is no longer an issue when Southeastern start looking at this latest case.

Southeastern will write to you in the next few weeks. The letter will say they've received a report and are considering prosecuting but asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. When it comes, post a redacted copy in this thread along with your draft reply and we can assist with proof reading it for you.

 

[zaimade]

I was travelling from Gravesend to abbey but I had only bought a ticket from Gravesend to north fleet to get through the barriers.

The last time that it had happened I was travelling from abbeywood to Gravesend and had only bought a ticket from north fleet to Gravesend to get through the barriers as well

I had bought adult tickets for both instances and the last time I was given a penalty fair notice at the station I had lost the receipt and didn’t see the letter until this week.

The issue isn’t even paying if I had the money to pay I would but I don’t as mentioned above I’m a student nurse and honestly getting by is a struggle. I really need to keep it out of court as it can affect my pin. I’m not sure what else I can do I’ve started drafting the letter just to get ahead of it. What usually happens in these cases if they can be settled out of court and do they offer payment plans ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2025 ==

And I’d also like to ask is getting a lawyer necessary ? They’re asking for £750 in fees which I don’t have and have no chance of even getting

 

[Hadders]

How were you getting through the barriers at Abbey Wood? Or was your journey continuing somewhere else? If so how were you paying for that and exiting at the final destination station?

Payment plans aren't normally offered. If you're offered a settlement then it normally has to be paid in full within a few days of it being offered.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Southeastern will search your online ticket purchasing history and if this shows you've regularly bought short distance tickets then they will factor the cost of these journeys into the settlement cost.

 

[zaimade]

I was continuing my journey using the Elizabeth line and I always paid. I’d use my oyster to tap on

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2025 ==

I was hoping my purchase of the railcard could show genuine regret and a will to do the right thing as I’ve started using it but I don’t know if that will stand to me at all. I’ve started drafting the letter in order to get ahead of the situation I’m just scared that this will affect my pin. If it does go to court will it have to go on my criminal record or is there a chance that it won’t ?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

. If it does go to court will it have to go on my criminal record or is there a chance that it won’t ?

If it goes to court and you are convicted (so if you plead guilty or are found guilty) it will go on your criminal record.

But as a student nurse, this may not be disastrous:
- have a look at what the NMC have to say about fitness to practice: https://www.nmc.org.uk/ftp-library/understanding-fitness-to-practise/using-fitness-to-practise/ would be somewhere to start, particularly point 10
- find out what your university's view is: the student union would be a good place to start
- find out what your placement's view is: again, if you are a member then RCN or Unison or whatever your trade union is may be able to help.

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

As well as following the advice here, you could talk to the student welfare people at your university/college if they have any suggestions about help with your financial situation.

 

[Hadders]

Ok so you were doing what is known as doughnutting. Buying short distance tickets at either end of the journey to get through the barriers but leaving a gap in the middle, which you haven't paid for.

Purchasing a railcard shows some intent to do the right thing in the future but on it's own in not going to get you out of trouble or change what has happened. Southeastern have already offered you one chance through the Penalty Fare they gave you, which you still haven't paid. Put yourself in their shoes - why should they offer you another chance?

 

[zaimade]

Their fairs are ridiculous and have since gone up. My hands were ride it’s either get kicked off the course for not attending class and placement or chance the train.

If their fairs were more affordable or if anybody bothered to pay student nurses I wouldn’t be in this position that being said I accept responsibility on my part I’m just trying to fix it. I’m not expecting the our HSE of my railcard to get me out of trouble completely in just hoping it can’t show intent to do the right thing. I’d just like to avoid court

 

[cool110]

If it does go to court will it have to go on my criminal record or is there a chance that it won’t ?

Depending on which offence you get convicted of it may or may not show on a DBS check, either way it will still be a criminal conviction that you'll need to declare. As a rule of thumb when it come to minor crimes being found out after trying to cover them up will be a much more serious problem than being honest

 

[zaimade]

This is a draft letter that i have drafted for SE

is there anything i could change to make it sound better. They haven't sent me a letter yet im just desperate to get Infront of the situation. Ill be sure to add my refrence d=number before sending

Prosecutions Department
Southeastern Railway

Subject: Request for Out-of-Court Settlement – Apology and Explanation
Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to express my sincere apologies for travelling with an incorrect ticket on the 8th of March while commuting from Gravesend to Abbey Wood. I fully acknowledge that this was a mistake, and I take full responsibility for my actions.

I am currently an MSc Child Nursing student, completing placement blocks as part of my training. My university strictly limits the amount of paid work I can undertake due to the intensity and responsibility of my studies. As a result, I have been struggling financially, often forced to choose between attending placement and affording a meal. On that day, I simply did not have enough money for the correct ticket, but I had to get to placement. I understand that this does not excuse my actions, but I hope it provides some context as to why I made such a regrettable decision.

Nursing is my passion, and I have worked tirelessly to pursue this career. I would never knowingly put my future at risk, and I am devastated that a moment of desperation could jeopardise everything I have worked for. A court case would be catastrophic for me, not only financially but also professionally, as it could impact my ability to qualify as a nurse. This is something I cannot afford to happen.

Since the incident, I have taken immediate steps to ensure this never happens again. I have secured a loan and purchased a railcard, which I now use correctly for all my journeys. This demonstrates my deep regret and my commitment to always following the rules moving forward.
I am truly sorry for any inconvenience caused, and I would be extremely grateful for the opportunity to settle this matter without legal proceedings. I am more than willing to cover any reasonable administrative costs that Southeastern has incurred in dealing with this issue.

Once again, I offer my sincerest apologies and hope you will consider my circumstances with compassion. I genuinely want to make things right and ensure I can continue my journey towards becoming a nurse without this mistake defining my future.
Thank you for your time and consideration. I truly appreciate your understanding and look forward to your response.
Kind regards,

 

[zaimade]

Depending on which offence you get convicted of it may or may not show on a DBS check, either way it will still be a criminal conviction that you'll need to declare. As a rule of thumb when it come to minor crimes being found out after trying to cover them up will be a much more serious problem than being honest

Many thanks for this. Which offences am i likley to be convicted of

 

[cool110]

The options they have are:

• Railway Byelaw 18 - This does not require any intent, can be prosecuted by SJP, and will not normally appear on DBS checks
• Regulation of Railway Act 1889 s.5 - This does require intent, is technically imprisonable (but not for a first offence), and will always appear on DBS

 

[zaimade]

The options they have are:

• Railway Byelaw 18 - This does not require any intent, can be prosecuted by SJP, and will not normally appear on DBS checks
• Regulation of Railway Act 1889 s.5 - This does require intent, is technically imprisonable (but not for a first offence), and will always appear on DBS

Thank you so much and can the regulation of railway act 1889 s.5 be prosecuted by SJP and what does that consist of

 

[cool110]

The Single Justice Procedure allow the courts to accept a guilty plea by post for minor offences without needing you to attend court, although you will have the right to request a normal hearing if you prefer to give mitigation in person rather than just be writing. As the RoRA is imprisonable it's not suitable for SJP, (don't worry about that part. No one ever goes to prison over this, the sentencing guidelines only go up to a community sentience for the most serious cases).

 

[JBuchananGB]

You should pay your Penalty Fare straight away.

Hopefully you are in the first 21 days since it was issued, in which case the reduced rate of £50 plus fare avoided applies. Otherwise its £100 plus fare avoided.

Now you have a Railcard you should find out the best fare from Gravesend to your actual destination (which I don't think you have mentioned yet) and always buy the right tickets.

 

[KAR110]

Out of interest, why do you not have student finance? You might want to discuss your financial situation with your student union to see if there are any discretionary grants available.

 

[JBuchananGB]

Everyone who travels by train must by law buy a ticket for their whole journey before they get on the train. There are very few exceptions, none of which apply to you. It is a moot point whether boarding a train without such a ticket makes you a thief. It does however make you a criminal. The train company (Southeastern) is entitled to take you to the Magistrates Court, where if found guilty you will receive a substantial financial penalty (made up of fine, costs, victim surcharge etc.) and a criminal record. Assuming you want to avoid this, you should co-operate with them as best as possible. Pay the outstanding Penalty Fare straightaway. Then when you receive a letter from Southeastern, you can upload it to this forum and get the best possible advice to minimise the amount of money you will need to pay to keep the matter out of court, and avoid the criminal record.

 

[zaimade]

Out of interest, why do you not have student finance? You might want to discuss your financial situation with your student union to see if there are any discretionary grants available.

Unfortunately for me i don't. Which also meant i wasn't eligible for the NHS learning support fund that is available for student nurses.

 

[hornbeampark]

I’m not a theif. My current situation is a result of the government not giving a toss.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2025 ==


A normal person who works a job would struggling to pay £40+ a day let alone a student nurse.

If, after all this is sorted, you post in fares advice and policy there are some very knowledgeable folks over there that can help you legitimately reduce the fare you have to pay for your commute.

As you’ve found out, evading the fare rarely saves money in the long run.

 

[zaimade]

If, after all this is sorted, you post in fares advice and policy there are some very knowledgeable folks over there that can help you legitimately reduce the fare you have to pay for your commute.

As you’ve found out, evading the fare rarely saves money in the long run.

Many thanks

 

[Dai Corner]

I’m not a theif. My current situation is a result of the government not giving a toss.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2025 ==


A normal person who works a job would struggling to pay £40+ a day let alone a student nurse.

Ask your University or student union about the NHS Learning Support Fund. You may be able to claim expenses for travel to or temporary accommodation near your placements.

NHS Learning Support Fund (LSF) | NHSBSA

Information on funding available for eligible nursing, midwifery and allied health professional students

www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk

If travelling from home to University is too expensive they'll help you find local accomodation too.

 

[tonycockram]

Please don’t write to the train operating company with this attitude oh my gosh. They will
Likely be investigating past journeys as well, so if you have done this previously they are entitled to ask for these charges as well.

You don’t need to incriminate yourself so if they don’t ask about previous journeys you will not have to deal with that.

The fact you still haven’t paid the penalty fare from the first incidence and then have continued doing there same sort of issues shows not much improvement, although buying a railcard should hold you in some good stead.

Once you get the letter from them come back here with. Draft and we can try and help, I’d pay the penalty fare straight away, and then try and sort out the mess you are in

The train company are usually ok to offer an out of court settlement, but in this case they may not want to due to the earlier issues and not having it paid.

Good luck

 

[zaimade]

Welcome to the forum!

We really need to know more about what you've been doing to be able to give appropriate advice. Which stations were you travelling between? Exactly whattickets were you using? How were these tickets purchased?

Based on what you've told us, Southeastern are entotled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court of they want to. Normally, they will offer an out of court to people who co-operate with them, and who haven't come to their attention before. The problem you've got is you have come to their attention before, and still haven't settled that. Exactly what happened last time - when you say you were given a fine was this at a court? A Penalty Fare? Or an out of court settlement following details being taken? Although not impossible, it will make keeping the matter out of court much more difficult. The first thing you should try and do is pay what is owed from the first case so at least this is no longer an issue when Southeastern start looking at this latest case.

Southeastern will write to you in the next few weeks. The letter will say they've received a report and are considering prosecuting but asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. When it comes, post a redacted copy in this thread along with your draft reply and we can assist with proof reading it for you.

What is the likelihood of them agreeing to settle out of court?

This is the draft letter that i intend on sending to them:

I am writing to express my sincere apologies for travelling with an incorrect ticket on the 8th of March while commuting from Gravesend to Abbey Wood. ​

​

I fully acknowledge that this was a mistake, and I take full responsibility for my actions.​

I am currently an MSc Child Nursing student, completing placement blocks as part of my training. My university strictly limits the amount of paid work I can undertake due to the intensity and responsibility of my studies.​

​

As a result, I have been struggling financially, often forced to choose between attending placement and affording a meal. ​

​

On that day, I simply did not have enough money for the correct ticket, but I had to get to placement. I understand that this does not excuse my actions, but I hope it provides some context as to why I made such a regrettable decision.​

​

I acknowledge that my actions were a serious error of judgement and the thought of this impacting my future brings me a great sense of sorrow. ​

​

Nursing is my passion, and I have worked tirelessly to pursue this career. I would never knowingly put my future at risk, and I am devastated that a moment of desperation could jeopardise everything I have worked for. ​

​

A court case would be catastrophic for me, not only financially but also professionally, as it could impact my ability to qualify as a nurse. This is something I cannot afford to happen. ​

​

It is embarrassing for me to have to admit that at my age I can not afford train tickets but id like to emphasise that this is at no fault of my own but i understand that the rail company is a business and that's none of their business. I am desperate and having to choose between being a belt to do a weekly shop or attending placement is honestly devastating and the cost of living crisis doesn't make it easier.​

​

Since the incident, I have taken immediate steps to ensure this never happens again. I have secured a loan and purchased a railcard, which I now use correctly for all my journeys. This demonstrates my deep regret and my commitment to always following the rules moving forward.​

​

I am truly sorry for any inconvenience caused, and I would be extremely grateful for the opportunity to settle this matter without legal proceedings. I am more than willing to cover any reasonable administrative costs that Southeastern has incurred in dealing with this issue.​

​

Once again, I offer my sincerest apologies and hope you will consider my circumstances with compassion and allow me the opportunity to resolve this amicably. I genuinely want to make things right and ensure I can continue my journey towards becoming a nurse without this mistake defining my future. ​

​

My actions were out of desperation and not dishonesty and when questioned by the rail officer i was completely honest about the situation at hand.​

​

Thank you for your time and consideration. I truly appreciate your understanding and look forward to your response.​

​

Kind regards,​

 

[zaimade]

Please don’t write to the train operating company with this attitude oh my gosh. They will
Likely be investigating past journeys as well, so if you have done this previously they are entitled to ask for these charges as well.

You don’t need to incriminate yourself so if they don’t ask about previous journeys you will not have to deal with that.

The fact you still haven’t paid the penalty fare from the first incidence and then have continued doing there same sort of issues shows not much improvement, although buying a railcard should hold you in some good stead.

Once you get the letter from them come back here with. Draft and we can try and help, I’d pay the penalty fare straight away, and then try and sort out the mess you are in

The train company are usually ok to offer an out of court settlement, but in this case they may not want to due to the earlier issues and not having it paid.

Good luck

The officer had asked me if ive done this before and advised me to be honest which i have been. Ive tried uploading my draft letter here but it is waiting for moderator approval. My letter to the rail company doesn't have an attitude i was just being honest in the form as that is the actual truth.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2025 ==

Ask your University or student union about the NHS Learning Support Fund. You may be able to claim expenses for travel to or temporary accommodation near your placements.

NHS Learning Support Fund (LSF) | NHSBSA

Information on funding available for eligible nursing, midwifery and allied health professional students

www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk

If travelling from home to University is too expensive they'll help you find local accomodation too.

I have tried that and i dont qualify

 

[AlterEgo]

I was continuing my journey using the Elizabeth line and I always paid. I’d use my oyster to tap on

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2025 ==

I was hoping my purchase of the railcard could show genuine regret and a will to do the right thing as I’ve started using it but I don’t know if that will stand to me at all. I’ve started drafting the letter in order to get ahead of the situation I’m just scared that this will affect my pin. If it does go to court will it have to go on my criminal record or is there a chance that it won’t ?

It shouldn’t go to court if you pay all the outstanding fares from all the evading. Southeastern usually settle. If it does go to court, yes, it will result in a criminal record. How this affects your registration I can’t say.

Nursing is a very responsible profession. You can kill people by making mistakes or being dishonest. You can’t be cutting corners because you think you won’t get caught or because you’re in a tight spot. So please learn the lesson from this; let us know when Southeastern write to you.

 

[zaimade]

I take my profession very seriously ive never cut corners in the hospital which is why im in this mess. I could have stayed home like some of my cohort but i had to find away to attend placement

 

[Hadders]

It’s good that you’ve started to write a draft letter, although it’s a bit premature as you don’t know what Southeastern are going to ask you in their letter. I’ve only managed to take a very Quick Look at it but as it stands my view is it will need some amendments to have the best chance of obtaining a favourable outcome.

Whatever the outcome is, you have to appreciate this is going to be expensive and you need to start thinking about how you are going to obtain the money to be able to pay either an out of court settlement to Southeastern or a court fine.

 

[zaimade]

How long fo these proceedings usually take ?

 

[Hadders]

It can take up to six months.