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Strike Free TOCs/ Areas

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tbtc

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Since privatisation, have there been any TOCs/ parts of the country avoided strikes by drivers/ guards?

At the moment Cross Country, London Midland and Northern seem to have their share of problems, but have all parts of the UK had strikes (post privatisation), or have some TOCs managed their industrial relations and avoided any strike action thus far?
 
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Clip

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Im not sure Chiltern have ever been on strike.
 

scotsman

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GNER was very good with its staff, dunno about strikes though
 

tbtc

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GNER was very good with its staff, dunno about strikes though

I was thinking that when the East Coast conductors were threatening to go on strike (over ticket barriers meaning they were "losing" commission) - I couldn't remember any strikes on that line under GNER/ NXEC...
 
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I think Heathrow Express / Connect have never been on strike (if you're counting non franchised TOCs). Searched through a few News articles which mention unions threatening strikes, but nothing seemed to confirm they that had been on strike.
 

ushawk

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Southern came near to a strike this Boxing Day a few months ago, but it was called off.

But no actual strike as such. Unsure if SWT have gone on strike, although i have a feeling they might have.
 

wintonian

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Southern came near to a strike this Boxing Day a few months ago, but it was called off.

But no actual strike as such. Unsure if SWT have gone on strike, although i have a feeling they might have.

They have on a few occasions mainly the guards and drivers on occasion I think, though not for a least 10 years.
 

313103

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In answer to the original question, the answer cannot be direct, If we talk about the original concept of privitisation the answer is yes all companies have had some sort of industrial action. If we then talk about since franchises have changed hands or new open access operators started then the answer is no.

Take the company i work on, under National Express ownership i can remember going on strike at least three times with at least another 4 threats of industrial action being averted some at the eleventh hour. Also in 2005-06 Conductors refused to work their booked Sundays over Christmas as the company decided to pay one grade but none of the others, so all the Conductors took time off whilst the Managers had to come in and work on both Christams eve and New years eve which that year fell on Sunday.

Under ownership of TfL we have had no strikes or industrial action to date, however we have had one ballot that was overwhelmingly supported (76% turnout getting a 90% yes vote) saw the company sit back round the table and dispute was averted.

I cant speak for other companies tbh as i dont know their T&Cs however it does seem that it all depends on local issues. When First group ran services under the GE banner industrial relations were good, when NEG took over they wanted hamonistation based on all the worst faceits of the three merged groups, the union sat around the table for 5 years before deciding to call it a day and keep all the staff on their former companys terms & Conditions.

Then you look at Arriva and you can see that industrial relations have soured so much that industrial action is always on the cards. Things must be bad with Arriva if the drivers are taking industrial action.

When i speak to my former colleagues that are now on London Midland, they tell me things were better under Silverlink/NEG ownership.

Some of the newer companies seem to have a more hands on approach with the staff, rather then the using the stick all the time.

It is a very good question though raise by the OP.
 

scotsman

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An EC Driver tells me that things at East Coast are little improved since the NX days
 

tbtc

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In answer to the original question, the answer cannot be direct, If we talk about the original concept of privitisation the answer is yes all companies have had some sort of industrial action. If we then talk about since franchises have changed hands or new open access operators started then the answer is no.

Take the company i work on, under National Express ownership i can remember going on strike at least three times with at least another 4 threats of industrial action being averted some at the eleventh hour. Also in 2005-06 Conductors refused to work their booked Sundays over Christmas as the company decided to pay one grade but none of the others, so all the Conductors took time off whilst the Managers had to come in and work on both Christams eve and New years eve which that year fell on Sunday.

Under ownership of TfL we have had no strikes or industrial action to date, however we have had one ballot that was overwhelmingly supported (76% turnout getting a 90% yes vote) saw the company sit back round the table and dispute was averted.

I cant speak for other companies tbh as i dont know their T&Cs however it does seem that it all depends on local issues. When First group ran services under the GE banner industrial relations were good, when NEG took over they wanted hamonistation based on all the worst faceits of the three merged groups, the union sat around the table for 5 years before deciding to call it a day and keep all the staff on their former companys terms & Conditions.

Then you look at Arriva and you can see that industrial relations have soured so much that industrial action is always on the cards. Things must be bad with Arriva if the drivers are taking industrial action.

When i speak to my former colleagues that are now on London Midland, they tell me things were better under Silverlink/NEG ownership.

Some of the newer companies seem to have a more hands on approach with the staff, rather then the using the stick all the time.

It is a very good question though raise by the OP.

Cheers; that's a very interesting answer.

My initial impression was that "intercity" operators tended not to have strikes, whilst "local" operators did (partly because the intercity TOCs were able to pay better wages, so ensure better staff relations etc).

However the idea of merging operations (Anglia + Great Eastern, Central + Cross Country etc) means different agreements/ rates/ conditions. It seems that some of these mergers have caused staff problems (which may not have been there as separate franchises).

Logically, this is something which ought to be considered when deciding whether to merge other TOCs (e.g. if you integrate Transpennine back into Northern then you may improve services, but you may cause staffing headaches).

Then again, FGW is an example of a TOC which has integrated three sets of staff into one company without industrial action (?), so maybe the problems say more about the TOCs involved than they do about the problems of changing franchise boundaries.
 

Failed Unit

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The other thing is although central trains never had a strike. They never in fact had industrial action. The staff just got so upset the decide the would work to rule. Hence why central were so poor at running trains on Sunday and around Christmas.
 

TheBigD

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The other thing is although central trains never had a strike. They never in fact had industrial action. The staff just got so upset the decide the would work to rule. Hence why central were so poor at running trains on Sunday and around Christmas.

Central did have a strike. But true to form the management even cocked that up and still paid us:D:D:D

And as discussed on many forums many times, Sundays were entirely voluntary.
 

bnm

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First Great Western have had a passenger fares strike on two occasions!!

Passengers in the Bristol area, fed up with overcrowding following DfT specified rolling stock allocations, refused to pay for tickets on two occasions in Jan 07 and Jan 08.
 

ANorthernGuard

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First Great Western have had a passenger fares strike on two occasions!!

Passengers in the Bristol area, fed up with overcrowding following DfT specified rolling stock allocations, refused to pay for tickets on two occasions in Jan 07 and Jan 08.


aaaahh but its O.K. for passengers to strike lol
 

tbtc

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i dont recall ever hearing of fgw taking strike action,

Me neither, yet they have managed to integrate three different areas into one company.

I presume that the differences between "Intercity wages" Great Western, "London weighted" Thames Trains and ""local wages" Wessex must have been more significant than the difference between ATN "provincial wages east of the pennines" and FNW "provincial wages west of the pennines". Yet FGW have managed to integrate all these different staff on different contracts without strike/ industrial action whilst Northern seem to struggle to deal with two similarly paid groups of people in Northern England. Is it because First are better at industrial relations?
 

TheBigD

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Me neither, yet they have managed to integrate three different areas into one company.

I presume that the differences between "Intercity wages" Great Western, "London weighted" Thames Trains and ""local wages" Wessex must have been more significant than the difference between ATN "provincial wages east of the pennines" and FNW "provincial wages west of the pennines". Yet FGW have managed to integrate all these different staff on different contracts without strike/ industrial action whilst Northern seem to struggle to deal with two similarly paid groups of people in Northern England. Is it because First are better at industrial relations?

FGW have not harmonised. Drivers voted against it on I believe 3 separate occasions, against ASLEF wishes.
 

ANorthernGuard

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Me neither, yet they have managed to integrate three different areas into one company.

I presume that the differences between "Intercity wages" Great Western, "London weighted" Thames Trains and ""local wages" Wessex must have been more significant than the difference between ATN "provincial wages east of the pennines" and FNW "provincial wages west of the pennines". Yet FGW have managed to integrate all these different staff on different contracts without strike/ industrial action whilst Northern seem to struggle to deal with two similarly paid groups of people in Northern England. Is it because First are better at industrial relations?

The reason Northern Failed in Harmonisation was because of a "Zero Cost" attitude which in reality is impossible lol
 

tbtc

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FGW have not harmonised. Drivers voted against it on I believe 3 separate occasions, against ASLEF wishes.

Sorry, I probably used the wrong word - I was meaning they've managed to keep everyone working together in one company without the poorly paid staff striking for not having the same T+Cs as other people in the same company.
 

TheBigD

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Sorry, I probably used the wrong word - I was meaning they've managed to keep everyone working together in one company without the poorly paid staff striking for not having the same T+Cs as other people in the same company.

No worries!

I think it's more to do with the fact that the ex wessex lot aren't remotely interested in driving HST's!
 

bnm

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aaaahh but its O.K. for passengers to strike lol

Not at all. What was done by the More Train Less Strain group was illegal and I for one didn't support it. Fare dodging is fare dodging no matter how you might dress it up. FGW wisely decided against prosecuting anybody and the MTLS campaign fizzled out. They had directed their anger to the wrong people. FGW were required by the DfT to give up rolling stock - which didn't even go to another TOC -it went into warm store.
 

radamfi

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Perhaps the greatest benefit of the franchise model is that nationwide total disruption to rail service is less likely. Industrial action is usually confined to one TOC and some affected passengers will have alternative routes available by using other TOCs.
 

tbtc

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Perhaps the greatest benefit of the franchise model is that nationwide total disruption to rail service is less likely. Industrial action is usually confined to one TOC and some affected passengers will have alternative routes available by using other TOCs.

But at the same time it makes (threats of) local action more likely, as there are now different "tiers" of staff and Unions know that TOCs are desperate to keep running.

At least with British Rail being run as a service (rather than a profit making business), they didn't have to bend over backwards.
 

TheBigD

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If TOC A pays more then there will inevitably be some staff who want to transfer for the higher salaries on offer.

TOC B will then have a choice. Constantly pay for for recruitment and training to replace them, or up the salaries to stop people joining TOC A. And training up a driver from scratch ain't cheap!

The franchising and fragmentation has created this situation.
 
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