Strike action rerouting and ticketing query

[yashicamat]

Morning all,

Been a little while but I have a slightly complex (?!) ticketing query. I was due to travel to on 1st October (SPT-DON via TPE, then DON-KGX via GCR) on AP tickets, leg one is 1st class, leg 2 is standard. The only reason for this routing is because the usual SPT-EUS was impossible to book with any certainty because of the Avanti issues, whereas I was able to book AP tickets and theoretically (!) sleep easy. Clearly, things have changed a bit now!

I have a few queries please that I hope the vast knowledge on here might be able to help with as I can't really find anything definitive on the TOC or NRE websites to cover this.

1) I've seen previous references that AP tickets may be used the day before strike days, but my DON-KGX leg doesn't run as a direct train on a Friday it would seem. This would mean having to catch a variety of other trains and a vastly lengthened journey. Assuming they're running on the Friday, would I be able to take an LNER train instead? This may apply on the actual original planned day of travel too if there are actually sufficient trains running (unlikely though!).

2) Would a "reasonable route" constitute a re-routing so I travelled direct SPT-EUS rather than via Doncaster?

3) In the event that 2) is affirmative, what happens with the fact that essentially half of my journey is first class and the other half is standard class?

Thank you!

 

[Watershed]

1) I've seen previous references that AP tickets may be used the day before strike days, but my DON-KGX leg doesn't run as a direct train on a Friday it would seem

Yes, acceptance the day before and for two days afterwards has been the typical pattern for previous strike days. It's worth noting that you do have other options, but those are the only days on which ticket acceptance is automatic and where don't need you to do anything.

There are four GC trains a day from Doncaster to Kings Cross on a Friday, just as there are on a Saturday. Two (1A59/1A63) run at similar times on both Friday and Saturday, whilst two (1A70/1A67) run around half an hour to an hour earlier than on Saturday. So I don't think it's a question of a direct train not running, but rather that if you were booked on 1A70/1A67, it may not be possible to make the Friday version of that train from your booked TPE train.

Assuming they're running on the Friday, would I be able to take an LNER train instead?

It's complicated. The right to re-routing, on its face, only gives you the right to travel "at the earliest opportunity" or "at a later date". Obviously with strike action such as this the disruption to your journey is foreseeable a while in advance and so arguably, "later date" should be interpreted as including an earlier date. But you'd probably have enough of an uphill battle even getting re-routed onto LNER, let alone on a different day.

This may apply on the actual original planned day of travel too if there are actually sufficient trains running (unlikely though!).

LNER have indeed run a limited service even on ASLEF strike days, though (and my memory may be failing me here, after so many strike days!) I don't think there has been a combined ASLEF + RMT strike day affecting LNER before?

GC are not affected by the ASLEF strike (their staff are not in dispute), but they will only be able to run a reduced service due to the limited route opening hours, as the concurrent RMT strike includes signallers at Network Rail.

Either way I would expect some GC trains to run on the Saturday. The bigger problem you'll face is that there won't be any trains to or from Stockport, as the route through the station is closed on RMT strike days. It's also highly doubtful whether there will be any trains running to or from Manchester Piccadilly. So if you wanted to travel on the Saturday you would have to take a train from another station.

2) Would a "reasonable route" constitute a re-routing so I travelled direct SPT-EUS rather than via Doncaster?

"Reasonable route" doesn't really come into it - it's a question of "comparable transport conditions". Given that your original planned journey involved one change and a journey time of around 3.5 hours, it would probably be reasonable to be re-routed, say, on TfW + LNR into Euston. But that would make little sense given that if you are travelling on the Friday, there will be trains to/from Stockport and so you could just as well continue to use TPE + GC into Kings Cross.

3) In the event that 2) is affirmative, what happens with the fact that essentially half of my journey is first class and the other half is standard class?

It's complicated, again! The right is to be re-routed in "comparable transport conditions". If you're now travelling on a direct train it's not exactly feasible to say you should make a third of the journey in First and the rest in Standard. I would suggest that being accommodated in Standard Premium would be a reasonable compromise - but it is probably more likely that you would be offered a refund of the additional cost of your First Class Advance over the equivalent Standard Advance (even though this would be unlikely to cover the cost of upgrading to SP).

 

[yashicamat]

Thank you for the comprehensive reply. Unfortunately departing at the same time on the Friday isn't possible as I can't get the annual leave from work, which I think is why I thought there were no GC trains that day - there are, just none late afternoon/early evening, the last is 16omething. I think an awful lot is going to hinge on if LNER will accept GC tickets on Friday 30th.

 

[Watershed]

Thank you for the comprehensive reply. Unfortunately departing at the same time on the Friday isn't possible as I can't get the annual leave from work, which I think is why I thought there were no GC trains that day - there are, just none late afternoon/early evening, the last is 16omething. I think an awful lot is going to hinge on if LNER will accept GC tickets on Friday 30th.

I see. The chances of LNER proactively accepting GC tickets are near zero I'm afraid (they are not the biggest fans of the open access operators, to put it mildly!).

There's probably no harm contacting TPE (who are the party 'at fault' from your perspective, as it's the cancellation of their train to Doncaster that is the start of the chain) and asking them to re-route you on the Friday evening. But I wouldn't hold out high hopes.

Your 'least worst', and certainly 'least hassle' option in the circumstances, is probably to get a refund/voucher for your original tickets under the Book with Confidence policy (the exact method depends on the retailer you used - so check before you rebook) and buy new tickets for the Friday evening. It looks like Advances for Avanti services are now available, plus if you're happy to go with a similar 1-change, 3.5 hour journey as your original plan, you could travel using Northern/TfW to Crewe and then LNR. Advances for that currently start at just £13.90, which is probably less than you spent to begin with!

 

[yashicamat]

Thank you. I have already corresponded (briefly) with TPE earlier but they refuse to discuss anything until they've agreed their own policies and timetables (!) - likely next week. Northern did offer refunds on all tickets, but the Crewe-Euston stopper is a painful service assuming it's the same format (did it once years ago - a short distance commuter train for 2.5 hours!).

I will see what happens over the next week I think - Avanti's tickets aren't cheap unfortunately, three figures for a pair of advances even with a railcard. Given I'm already forking out an additional £150 for an extra night in a hotel (which I don't even particularly want) is enough without having to spend more.

Appreciate the input - I will watch and wait.

 

[Watershed]

Thank you. I have already corresponded (briefly) with TPE earlier but they refuse to discuss anything until they've agreed their own policies and timetables (!) - likely next week.

Rather pointless seeing as everyone already knows that the Hope Valley route, as well as Stockport, will not be open on an RMT strike day!

Northern did offer refunds on all tickets, but the Crewe-Euston stopper is a painful service assuming it's the same format (did it once years ago - a short distance commuter train for 2.5 hours!).

I presume you booked through Northern? Did you buy your tickets online or at a ticket office?

The Crewe-Euston LNR service is now more of a semifast, and not nearly as slow or painful as it once was. It's now 8 coaches (with shortforms very rare) so plenty of capacity, and runs 'direct' rather than via Stoke and Northampton, so the journey time is now around 2 hours. Whilst there are a reasonable number of 350/2s on that route (these are the type with cramped 3+2 seating), you would have to be pretty unlucky for both units to be a 350/2. It's highly likely at least one unit will have 2+2 seats which would be perfectly comfortable.

First Class is 2+2 on all units and generally doesn't cost much more than Standard, especially if you buy an Advance.

I will see what happens over the next week I think - Avanti's tickets aren't cheap unfortunately, three figures for a pair of advances even with a railcard. Given I'm already forking out an additional £150 for an extra night in a hotel (which I don't even particularly want) is enough without having to spend more.

Depends which services you go for but the direct Avanti services from Stockport range from £17.60 (21:24) to £37.25 (17:24/18:24) with a Railcard on the Friday evening. The 20:24 at £23.20 is probably the sweet spot.

Appreciate the input - I will watch and wait.

I think waiting will only put the price of Advances up. There is going to be no feasible way of making the journey on Saturday (unless you drive or take a bus to another station such as Sheffield or Doncaster) and on the Friday you are going to heavily struggle to get ticket acceptance or re-routing at a time that suits.

Seeing as you can still get a voucher/credit for your tickets up to 6pm before the day of travel, I would book Advances now for your preferred option.

 

[Haywain]

The chances of LNER proactively accepting GC tickets are near zero I'm afraid

I think it can be safely assumed that LNER will not be accepting GC tickets if the GC services are running. When ticket acceptance for GC tickets is in place it is usually for specific LNER services.

Unfortunately departing at the same time on the Friday isn't possible

Would you be able to depart at a time suitable to getting to York for the 19:12 GC service to London? It may be that your tickets could be accepted on alternative TPE/GC services on the Friday.

 

[Watershed]

Would you be able to depart at a time suitable to getting to York for the 19:12 GC service to London? It may be that your tickets could be accepted on alternative TPE/GC services on the Friday.

That's certainly another option. However, an unfortunate combination of trains that are withdrawn in the current timetable, and others that are just shy of the minimum connection time, mean that getting to York in time for the 19:12 would require leaving Stockport at 14:53 if using purely TPE services. Or at 16:29 if the OP were prepared to pay for a new ticket from Stockport to Manchester (to travel on Northern). Neither of which sound like they would be feasible options if the OP works a typical 9-5 job.