Stressing about possibly getting a criminal record

[Newton]

I used a child ticket earlier while being 17 and the inspector caught me and took my information down. He didn't give me a fine on the spot and instead submitted it to the prosecution team to deal with. About a year ago I was also caught with a child ticket and was only given a fine and I'll therefore be a repeat offender. so now I'm stressing about potentially getting a criminal record for this. The ticket was only one stop and cost £5

 

[transportphoto]

The chances of a train company bringing a protection against a seventeen year old, whilst not impossible, is not likely.

I’d take a breather and await any potential correspondence to arrive.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Newton. Welcome to the forum. If you're still 17, you do realise that you're still eligible to get a 16-17 Saver railcard, which would enable you to legitimately purchase adult tickets at 50% discount until you turn 18?

 

[Newton]

The chances of a train company bringing a protection against a seventeen year old, whilst not impossible, is not likely.

I’d take a breather and await any potential correspondence to arrive.

I'm just extremely concerned because it's the second time and I wasn't fined on the spot so I assume it may be worse

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 May 2024 ==

@Newton. Welcome to the forum. If you're still 17, you do realise that you're still eligible to get a 16-17 Saver railcard, which would enable you to legitimately purchase adult tickets at 50% discount until you turn 18?

I was recently made aware of this and will definitely be using this in future

 

[30907]

I'm just extremely concerned because it's the second time and I wasn't fined on the spot so I assume it may be worse.

I presume that the first time you received a Penalty Fare which you paid on the spot? There are different possible explanations:
1. the second person wasn't authorised to issue PFs.
2. you were spotted as a repeat offender.
3. train companies are generally tightening up on invalid tickets and taking the opportunity to check people's online purchase history. This is very likely.

It will depend a little on which train company caught you, but as you are under 18 you are less likely to be prosecuted this time. TfL have a strict policy with adults, GWR are more likely to settle out of court. (I am assuming you have given your actual postcode as your location - if so I'd advise you to change that as it makes it too easy to identify you.)

Either way, they will check your history, on the basis that people who cheat are rarely caught the first time. You (or more likely a parent) must expect a letter, which may be some time coming - when it does, do please ask for more advice. However, if you have done this more than once, it will prove expensive as they will be asking you to pay in full for any journey you didn't have the correct ticket for

 

[Newton]

I presume that the first time you received a Penalty Fare which you paid on the spot? There are different possible explanations:
1. the second person wasn't authorised to issue PFs.
2. you were spotted as a repeat offender.
3. train companies are generally tightening up on invalid tickets and taking the opportunity to check people's online purchase history. This is very likely.

It will depend a little on which train company caught you, but as you are under 18 you are less likely to be prosecuted this time. TfL have a strict policy with adults, GWR are more likely to settle out of court. (I am assuming you have given your actual postcode as your location - if so I'd advise you to change that as it makes it too easy to identify you.)

Either way, they will check your history, on the basis that people who cheat are rarely caught the first time. You (or more likely a parent) must expect a letter, which may be some time coming - when it does, do please ask for more advice. However, if you have done this more than once, it will prove expensive as they will be asking you to pay in full for any journey you didn't have the correct ticket for

I'm not too fussed about the money as I'm happy to pay that but I'm very worried about the possibility of a criminal record. I also only ever use the machines to purchase tickets and never online so can they still track the purchase history

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 May 2024 ==

I presume that the first time you received a Penalty Fare which you paid on the spot? There are different possible explanations:
1. the second person wasn't authorised to issue PFs.
2. you were spotted as a repeat offender.
3. train companies are generally tightening up on invalid tickets and taking the opportunity to check people's online purchase history. This is very likely.

It will depend a little on which train company caught you, but as you are under 18 you are less likely to be prosecuted this time. TfL have a strict policy with adults, GWR are more likely to settle out of court. (I am assuming you have given your actual postcode as your location - if so I'd advise you to change that as it makes it too easy to identify you.)

Either way, they will check your history, on the basis that people who cheat are rarely caught the first time. You (or more likely a parent) must expect a letter, which may be some time coming - when it does, do please ask for more advice. However, if you have done this more than once, it will prove expensive as they will be asking you to pay in full for any journey you didn't have the correct ticket for

it was also a GWR employee who caught me

 

[Fermiboson]

@Newton It would certainly be helpful to your future financial and career prospects to learn the lesson this time round, and decidedly stop fare evading especially as you turn 18.

Regardless it is important for you to figure out honestly to yourself how many journeys you have evaded. What is the total amount of fares you have evaded over the past 1+ years? Include all journeys you have made as GWR will be able to communicate with other retailers and TOCs to figure out your full journey history over a surprisingly long time period. Don’t assume you will be able to hide anything from them.

It is highly unlikely for minors to be prosecuted, but by no means impossible. A recent FOI revealed that Northern prosecuted single digit numbers of minors every year and it would be reasonable to assume the figures are similar elsewhere. If you’ve evaded large amounts of fares extremely regularly and frequently both before and after you were caught the first time round then the TOC may very well see fit to take more severe action. You need to be prepared for that and not rely on the shield of age.

 

[Newton]

It would certainly be helpful to your future financial and career prospects to learn the lesson this time round, and decidedly stop fare evading especially as you turn 18.

Regardless it is important for you to figure out honestly to yourself how many journeys you have evaded. What is the total amount of fares you have evaded over the past 1+ years? Include all journeys you have made as GWR will be able to communicate with other retailers and TOCs to figure out your full journey history over a surprisingly long time period. Don’t assume you will be able to hide anything from them.

It is highly unlikely for minors to be prosecuted, but by no means impossible. A recent FOI revealed that Northern prosecuted single digit numbers of minors every year and it would be reasonable to assume the figures are similar elsewhere. If you’ve evaded large amounts of fares extremely regularly and frequently both before and after you were caught the first time round then the TOC may very well see fit to take more severe action. You need to be prepared for that and not rely on the shield of ai

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 May 2024 ==

I agree with you and I understand how serious it actually is now that a criminal record is a possibility. I've certainly learned my lesson I'm just incredibly stressed about what this could affect in the future for my life.

 

[Fermiboson]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 May 2024 ==

I agree with you and I understand how serious it actually is now that a criminal record is a possibility. I've certainly learned my lesson I'm just incredibly stressed about what this could affect in the future for my life.

What’s done is done, so there is little point in further worrying over things outside your control. When/if the TOC sends you a letter, be frank, apologetic and most importantly honest. If you have not already done so, inform your parents/guardians; you will likely need to gather a great sum of money very quickly if a settlement is offered and morality aside it’s very difficult to do that without familial support. I appreciate that can be a difficult thing to do but it is better to have difficult conversations while the situation remains salvageable.

A conviction is unlikely to ruin your life (and you definitely won’t go to prison). Most rail ticketing offences are immediately spent, which means they won’t show on DBS checks and you’re not obligated under most circumstances to disclose them, although this forum has differing opinions on whether or not you should do so anyways in the interest of honesty, and most employers are unlikely to care that much unless you work in careers like banking or law. Unlock is a charity for rehabilitation whose guides will contain more information on what sort of impacts byelaw conviction may have.

If you are prosecuted for fraud - highly unlikely unless you’ve been up to things like forging ID cards and railcards - then the consequences are much more serious. But we’ve seen TOCs settle with adults for several thousands of pounds of evaded fares so this shouldn’t be something you spend too much time worrying about.

 

[Newton]

Two months ago I was caught using a child ticket while being 17 I gave the guy all my correct details and he said he would be contacting the prosecutions department. After two months I have heard nothing and I'm worried they sent it to the wrong address and it may have escalated without my knowledge.

 

[Elecman]

You may want to remove your postcode as your location

 

[30907]

Unless they have a (previous) wrong address the letter is unlikely to have gone astray, and many train companies have a backlog; they have 6 months to lay a case before the court. Remember that they are unlikely to prosecute an under-18 anyway.

(If there is a previous address then it might be worth contacting them, but unless you have a reference from the current case it may be difficult to link your letter to the incident - date, time, location and name would help.)

 

[Cuthbert]

For the company I work for we do not MG anyone under 18 and we also cannot take payment from anyone under 18.

Interesting that other ToCs do things differently.

 

[Newton]

Five months ago I was caught using a child ticket instead of an adult ticket and I was caught before even getting on the train. I gave correct details and I was 17 at the time and he said he would be contacting the prosecutions department. After 5 months I've still heard nothing and I'm worried it may have moved on without my knowledge and I might have a criminal record without even knowing.

 

[WesternLancer]

Five months ago I was caught using a child ticket instead of an adult ticket and I was caught before even getting on the train. I gave correct details and I was 17 at the time and he said he would be contacting the prosecutions department. After 5 months I've still heard nothing and I'm worried it may have moved on without my knowledge and I might have a criminal record without even knowing.

Hi - if that is your real post code in the location you may want to change that to something more generic as it would allow you to be identified (a postcode is only a handful of houses)

If you are now over 18 it would be an idea for you to buy a Railcard if you have not already done so in order to reduce the cost of your train fares legitimately.

I assume you gave a correct postal address to the staff who stopped you, and you have not moved address since you gave that address.

As you were under 18 it may be that they have written to your parents, have you asked them if they have received any post about this / or told them what happened?

 

[Haywain]

Five months ago I was caught using a child ticket instead of an adult ticket and I was caught before even getting on the train. I gave correct details and I was 17 at the time and he said he would be contacting the prosecutions department. After 5 months I've still heard nothing and I'm worried it may have moved on without my knowledge and I might have a criminal record without even knowing.

It is possible that nothing more will come of this. If you were stopped before you had boarded a train then you may not have committed an offence and the train company may have realised that. If they have they are not going to be writing to you to tell you. On the other hand they may have a backlog of work and may not have written to you yet. You will have to be patient for a bit longer, but if you haven't then heard anything after 7 months you are probably in the clear.

 

[some bloke]

I'm worried it may have moved on without my knowledge and I might have a criminal record without even knowing.

Not a big problem as regards getting it reversed. A conviction would be void if you submit a statutory declaration, within 21 days of finding out about it, that you didn't know about the prosecution.

You could then persuade the company to drop the case and settle. I can't remember any cases on this forum where a company bothered to take it to court again - usually it seems the case only went to court because the person didn't reply.

Statutory declaration of ignorance of proceedings

Use this form to make a declaration of ignorance of proceedings

www.gov.uk

Most rail ticketing offences are immediately spent, which means they won’t show on DBS checks and you’re not obligated under most circumstances to disclose them

When a conviction is spent depends on the sentence rather than the offence.

For a fine it is 12 months for over-18s and 6 months for under-18s.

Rehabilitation Periods

A table of rehabilitation periods for the most common sentences and disposals, and example scenarios.

www.gov.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2024 ==

If someone is convicted when they didn't know about the prosecution, they may still have an obligation to declare it to an employer or to another organisation before it's void.

Whether there are some jobs/professions where it would be expected that a person would declare a voided conviction is something others may be able to answer.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2024 ==

Unsurprisingly, for some jobs people have to declare things that may be relevant to fitness for the role/profession, which could include behaviour rather than only charges or convictions.

Employers and regulators tend to be human, and so not perfect themselves. They are aware that people do a variety of things when teenagers and otherwise.

I was recently made aware of this and will definitely be using this in future

So it seems you're still 17. In any case, GWR's revenue protection policy says:

"We’ll do our best to settle out of court.

Prosecution can have serious consequences on your personal and professional life. So, if you don’t pay your fare, we will do everything we can to avoid taking you to court. We’ll probably send you an offer to settle out of court – usually asking you to pay an amount to cover your fare and our costs....


How to accept our offer

We’ll give you 21 days to accept our offer
to settle out of court."

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/revenue-protection-policy/GWR-Revenue-Protection-Policy-January-2023-v2.pdf