Strawberry Hill Depot

[NorthBox]

I wonder if there is anyone out there who could tell me how stock entered and exited Strawberry Hill depot in the mid 1970s. The compilers of the WTT and Station Summaries of the time do not make clear the route taken to get in and out of the depot to/from Twickenham, Kingston or Shepperton. Some movements are obvious, for example:
Depot to Twickenham (depart via Strawberry Hill Junction to Up Strawberry Hill,
Depot to Kingston (depart via Shacklegate Junction and crossover to Up Kingston.

Some movements are not quite so obvious (not to me, anyway!) such as Depot (Berth No. 6 Shed) to Shepperton.

Please confirm that the cross over to the north of Strawberry Hill station was/is a facing crossover. I have an early signal box diagram of Strawberry Hill Junction which shows the cross over as a trailing crossover (like the others at Shacklegate and Fulwell Junctions). However, later diagrams show it as a facing crossover.

What happened when trains from the Twickenham direction split at Strawberry Hill station and the front portion continued to Kingston but the rear portion went to the Depot? As a matter of interest who did the uncoupling - was it a driver or was a member of staff from the depot on hand and how much time was allowed?

One more question! In the Station Summary which I have (dated 20 April 1976 to 1 May 1977) a siding at the Depot is referred to as the 'Field Siding.' Neither of the two track diagrams I have refer to such a siding. Does anyone know which siding it was?

I would really appreciate your comments on the above.

Thanks.

 

[D235 Apapa]

I presume by station summaries you are referring to the carriage working notices as they use to be pre computer age (A5 ish sized printed books, latterly with blue covers)? To understand movements such as those at Strawberry Hill depot, back in those days many movements within depot areas were 'notional' times in one sense, so detailed timings were not always reflected in the CWN's for shunt moves or moves in and around depots. In todays computer age, every movement, including shunts, are 'timed' to reflect the actual time taken from point A to point B, or whatever, and are uploaded to Networkrails computer systems.
Also back in the 70's, is was not unusual for shunt moves to be propelled (ie being driven from what effectively was the rear cab of a shunt move) with a competent person (guard or shunter) in the leading cab, until the point where the shunt ceased, and the direction of travel reversed, whereby the driver would then drive forward. In todays world, as far as i'm aware, all movements must be driven by the driver from the leading cab, with a need to physically change ends where necessary. This aspect of shunt moves can mean that todays shunts in most circumstances will take longer time wise, than they often did way back when.
So to your queries:
Depot (shed) to Shepperton, most likely normal route would be out the depot to Straw Hill station and past the trailing crossover (as it used to be), then cross to the Teddington bound line, and take a right just after Strawberry Hill station along the Shepperton spur (north side of the triangle).
If a train from Twickers was booked to divide at Straw Hill, the rear (Twick end) unit would be split (I believe, but will stand corrected, that a shunter from the depot would do this), and the relieving driver making this shunt would most likely propel back across the trailing crossover, then pull forward through platform 2 and into the depot.
Within the depot various sidings had names based upon their former use in steam days. Alongside the Straw Hill sta - Fulwell curve, there were two sidings that merged at the Fulwell end, then exited the depot towards Shepperton (this was an alternative route from the depot to Sheppy, but was seldom used in later years, as due to space restrictions, any such shunt would normally have to run to via Straw Hill station anyway). Of these two sidings, that nearest to the running line was the 'Shepperton' sdg, the second over was the 'Weybridge' sdg. Beyond that were a few dead end sdgs fanned out with their buffers nearest the Shacklegate/Fulwell curve. These are still there today, but realigned. The first of these (or 3rd from the straw Hill/Fulwell curve) was the Field sdg, but as with most of the sidings in this group was only short in usable stabling length (477 feet), anything longer in here would be foul of the next sdg over.

 

[NorthBox]

Many thanks indeed for replying at such length and with so much detail.

Yes, I am indeed referring to CWNs but the copies I have are titled Station Summaries. In 1977 I bought from Collectors Corner near Euston Station a complete set of WTTs and SSs for 1976/77 for the whole of 'Southern Electric.' Unfortunately I never had the time to seriously dig and delve into them for my work was such that I spent most of my time 3500 miles away in the Middle East. It is only now that I am mostly retired that I can pursue my interest in the operations of 'Southern Electric.' By the way that interest began when in 1951, as a ten year old, I had been taken by my parents to visit the Festival of Britain exhibition on the South Bank. Afterwards we went to stay with relations who lived adjacent to the Dundonald Road level crossing on the Wimbledon to Mitcham Junction Line. Myself and my cousin went outside to watch the trains but it was a bit disappointing because the service was rather sparse. However, the signalman took pity on us and directed us towards Wimbledon station and we spent a glorious couple of hours standing on the footbridge which spanned all the tracks to the west of Wimbledon Station (Is it still there? If so, I may try and revisit!). I had never seen so many trains in my life! As interesting as the exhibition undoubtedly was I was far more impressed by the workings of 'Southern Electric.'

What I hope to do is to construct a computer model centred on Strawberry Hill Depot and including to the west the whole of the Shepperton branch, to the north as far as Twickenham and to the South/East as far as Kingston. However, before I can even think about the programming involved I need to nail down the data. Naively, as it turned out, I thought all would be revealed in the WTTs and/or the SSs. Of course, most of the data is there but the activities in and around the depots are not as detailed as I would like. For instance, the section in the SS for Strawberry Hill, rather confusingly, includes both the station and the depot! The section on Effingham Junction is even worse and do not even mention Eastleigh!

So what I have to do is to produce a detailed timetable including shunt movements for each train (just like you say is current practice) using the data that I have together with intelligent (hopefully!) guesswork.

I think I have identified the 'Field' siding. I have a track diagram of the depot dated 1979 and the three sidings you mention are clearly marked but not named. The one I believe to be the Field Siding is adjacent to and runs parallel to the West wall of the Shed. So, many thanks for that! I have another track diagram dated 1994 and that shows many new sidings in the southwest corner of the depot - presumably all done sometime in the late 70s or 80s.

Do you, or indeed anyone else reading this, have a date for when the crossover to the north of Strawberry Hill Station was rebuilt from a trailing to a facing crossover? (It must have been during or before 1979 perhaps at the same time as the changes within the depot itself.)

Thanks again.

 

[D235 Apapa]

The bridge over the main lines just west of Wimbledon station to Dundonald Road is indeed still there and still a public route over the line. As for the confusing entries in the CWN's, yes in many cases where both a depot and its associated station came under the same name, the entries were lumped together, but always based on train departure/arrival time order (reading down the page). It was down to the intervention of the computer and associated systems, that meant every location where a train activity took place, namely a point of origin, a terminal location, or a through station where a detachment or attachment took place (and depot locations), that saw each such location get its own entry.
As for the Field siding, if you are able to refer you to the Middleton Press book, Kingston & Hounslow loops, in the section titled 'Strawberry Hill' (there don't appear to be pages numbers) there is an OS style map extract showing the depot. Alongside the Straw Hill-Fulwell curve (bottom right to top left) you'll see the two sidings that have a joint exit out towards Fulwell, the departure signal marked S.P., they are the 'Shepperton' & 'Weybridge' sidings. There are then four dead end sidings fanned out. The first of these (working from top right to bottom left) is the 'Field' siding, the second is the 'Long Ash' siding (289 feet), the third is the 'Short Ash' (193 feet) and the fourth (alongside the shed) is the 'Wood' siding (281 feet).
This area was remodelled in the mid 70's (refer to track layout diagrams books by one G.A.Pryer - he published a whole series of these way back), which gives a date of 14th April '75 for the revised layout coming into use. Similarly the new facing crossover at the Twickenham end of the station is shown as being laid on 6th Oct '74, and brought into use 10th Nov '74, replacing the trailing crossover.
More recently there have been further changes to the layout to the East of the shed to accommodate the incoming 10 car formations.

 

[NorthBox]

Many thanks again!!!

I'm very pleased that the bridge is still there and is a public right of way. My eldest son lives in Wimbledon so next time I visit I shall take a stroll into the village and beyond and make a pilgrimage to a spot last visited so many years ago.

As part of my project I have almost completed transfering the data listed in the South Western Division Station Summary (or CWN, if you prefer!) into a spread sheet. I have also included the 4 character ID, the two character headcode, the running line and the platform used for each train and station entry. Once that is completed then I will tease out what needs to be added to the timings for the movements into and out of the depots. I notice from RealTimeTrains that the old headcodes are still in use - maybe not on the trains themselves but certainly in the data bank.

Thanks also for recommending the Middleton Press book regarding the Kingston and Hounslow loops. As soon as I read your post I located a second hand copy and it is already on the way!

It is also good news to have a definite date for that crossover! It has been at the back of my mind for ages! I would not be best pleased to assume that is was still a trailing crossover in 1976/77 only to find that it had already been converted.

I have a feeling that the track diagram that I have - dated 1979 - actually gives the layout of the Depot as it was before the 1975 changes (which is a bit cheeky!). Therefore I think that the 1994 dated track diagram shows the revised 1975 layout and it is consistent with your description. In the 1994 diagram each siding is numbered so presumably sometime after 1977 (the Field Siding is described as such in the 1976/77 SS) the names of the sidings were discarded (computerisation at work yet again I dare say!).

Many thanks again for your extremely useful input.