Stratford London after crossrail

[swt_passenger]

Stratford now 6th busiest station in the UK on the latest stats and by far the fastest growth of any large station. Granted this was somewhat due to methodology changes but I expect this to continue with west ham now playing there, 100ks of homes are being built and crossrail will be coming.

They really need to get a plan together for a total overhaul of the station because if the growth continues it is going to be constantly shut for overcrowding.

They rather 'burnt their boats' when they decided on the DLR taking over the old NLL tunnel to access the international station.

Without that own goal they could have provided a larger ground level concourse, more and better interchange routes, and more through platform access stairs, we just need to imagine the DLR running into a couple of bays alongside the Jubilee.

Perhaps in hindsight they should have extended the other DLR route parallel to the through platforms, and then took it over and around to approach the international station from the south east. No doubt it would be considered impossible now, but probably not ten years ago.

Thoughts?

 

[Taunton]

Thoughts?

Was the straightforward option. That route through the station was already there from the old North London line North Woolwich to Richmond service. Just as poorly designed now is the arrangement just along the line at Canning Town, where services to Woolwich and Beckton depart from two widely separated platforms. The extra trains put on for Excel trade shows leave from the old North London platforms there, where nobody goes to wait for them.

 

[Alfie1014]

I think that Stratford is one of the most under pressure stations on the network these days, I avoid it like the plague unless absolutely necessary at peak times. I'm not sure the current TfL staffing issues help, at times there are long waits to get through the barriers (especially at the Westfield exit) if your ticket doesn't work. On a recent Sunday all the GE and LTS services were going off of 9/10 (I'm not sure whether the E Lines were blocked due to engineering work or whether staffing levels precluded using more platforms) but the crush on these platforms was chronic. The narrow stairways up to these platforms don't help (though not easily solved) and are frequnetly blocked by passengers seeking shelter if its raining. It's got to be the worst enviroment to wait for long distance trains in London, longer awnings and the provision of waiting rooms would go a long way to improve matters, especially as these are provided on the E Line platforms where due to much higher frequencies your wait will almost always be much shorter! Hopefully something that can be rectified during the long GA franchise!

It may get worse too with even more development taking place, HMRC are moving many staff here in the near future, the V&A annex and of course the arrival of Crossrail.

Ironically the station will almost be able to be seen from TfLs new headquarters building that is being built nearbybetween Westfield and the Stadium so perhaps that might spur some more management attention? That said there are rumours that TfL might not be relocating from Central London after all?

 

[Clip]

They missed a trick by not forcing Westfield to pay for a station concourse on the side of the Overground and another bridge over the tracks as part of the station itself so that the flow from Westfield could be better distributed including those for the Jubilee line

 

[D365]

Crossrail's Class 345s will likely soak up a huge amount of the passenger growth, even in their initial seven-car length. From what I have read about the Class 700s and their introduction to Thameslink, even without the frequency increase, they have had a huge 'sponge' effect that the previous stock simply isn't able to replicate.

 

[AlanFry1]

Maryland already has just under 1.5 million users a year, will more than likely be 2.5-3 by the time crossrail is good to go now.

 

[AlanFry1]

There will more than likely be more disruption to stratford when the WAML have trains directed through there and London Overground services on the NLL are eventually extended to Chingford.

Not sure how they can get around the platforms here being only capable of 8 car service though?

 

[swt_passenger]

There will more than likely be more disruption to stratford when the WAML have trains directed through there ...

This is a repeat, but the RUS for the area says it can only be done off-peak because there is no capacity through the station. The intention is to provide more GEML fast services in the peaks.

 

[AlanFry1]

Not necessarily because this won't be the case in the next RUS - Stansted have recently announced they plan to run all day services through stratford. The argument for GEML fourfold rather than WAML and GEML through stratford isn't the RUS's finest hour. Four tracks from LST- Stratford will not change the fact that there will never be more than 30tph through Romford and shenfield.

 

[Taunton]

I think Crossrail will reduce the Stratford interchanging substantially. Suburban passengers from the GEML heading for Canary Wharf offices, changing to the Jubilee or DLR, make up a significant proportion of the interchange. This will be both quicker and far less walking done at Whitechapel across the new island platform there, so many of those currently using Stratford will no longer do so. Likewise those heading for the District Line through The City, who do a double-crossover at Stratford and Mile End, will now stick with Crossrail and change at Whitechapel.

 

[mrmartin]

Not so sure. I think people will stick to two cross platform interchanges rather than a big trek round Whitechapel station.

 

[anti-pacer]

My aunty lived on Clarendon Gardens, between The Drive and Cranbrook Road in Ilford. She worked near Bank, but always took the train from Ilford to Liverpool Street, and then one stop on the Central Line.

I never understood this logic. Back then I'm sure there were non-stop services from Ilford to Stratford, but from the stoppers it's easier, where as a lot of you will know there is a cross-platform (island platform) connection to the Central Line in the same direction of travel. It's simply madness to change at Liverpool Street given the distance from the mainline platforms down to the Central Line.

For those of you who know Ilford, what route would you have taken? Personally I would have walked to Gants Hill tube* and took the Central Line all the way. More chance of a seat too than at Ilford I would have thought.

*In bad weather I would bus it to Redbridge and continue from there by tube.

 

[edwin_m]

Not so sure. I think people will stick to two cross platform interchanges rather than a big trek round Whitechapel station.

Won't GEML to Canary Wharf just be a matter of crossing from the westbound to the eastbound Crossrail platform at Whitechapel? One stop after Stratford and continue one stop to CW.

 

[Ianno87]

My aunty lived on Clarendon Gardens, between The Drive and Cranbrook Road in Ilford. She worked near Bank, but always took the train from Ilford to Liverpool Street, and then one stop on the Central Line.

I never understood this logic. Back then I'm sure there were non-stop services from Ilford to Stratford, but from the stoppers it's easier, where as a lot of you will know there is a cross-platform (island platform) connection to the Central Line in the same direction of travel. It's simply madness to change at Liverpool Street given the distance from the mainline platforms down to the Central Line.

For those of you who know Ilford, what route would you have taken? Personally I would have walked to Gants Hill tube* and took the Central Line all the way. More chance of a seat too than at Ilford I would have thought.

*In bad weather I would bus it to Redbridge and continue from there by tube.

I'd say it was madness to change onto the Central Line full stop! Bank is only 10 minutes walk from Liverpool Street tops (5 minutes at my ludicrous London walking pace) - it takes that long just to negotiate Bank tube station.

 

[Ianno87]

This is a repeat, but the RUS for the area says it can only be done off-peak because there is no capacity through the station. The intention is to provide more GEML fast services in the peaks.

And in the peaks there are also ECS moves to and from Orient Way which chew up capacity (as well as capacity into Liverpool St itself being limited)

 

[HowardGWR]

I'd say it was madness to change onto the Central Line full stop! Bank is only 10 minutes walk from Liverpool Street tops (5 minutes at my ludicrous London walking pace) - it takes that long just to negotiate Bank tube station.

I think that a lot of people who have lived in a London suburb all their lives have no idea what's 'up top'. Thus they make one stop changes on the tube when they could have walked it quicker. People don't read maps: they don't even know what is N, S, E or W. The diagrammatic LU maps don't help, although the late Beck and Pick are now worshipped (fairly enough ).

 

[Busaholic]

I think that a lot of people who have lived in a London suburb all their lives have no idea what's 'up top'. Thus they make one stop changes on the tube when they could have walked it quicker. People don't read maps: they don't even know what is N, S, E or W. The diagrammatic LU maps don't help, although the late Beck and Pick are now worshipped (fairly enough ).

Old habits die hard, you can't teach an old dog new tricks etc etc. I never understood why my godmother, who lived five minutes from Morden Station, used to travel to Wimbledon Station every day, by bus, then to Waterloo and a walk to the Drain to access Bank Station, when she could get a Northern Line direct (and a seat from the start in the morning!) She did once have the grace to admit when I insisted on accompanying her by tube that it was a lot easier!

 

[AM9]

My aunty lived on Clarendon Gardens, between The Drive and Cranbrook Road in Ilford. She worked near Bank, but always took the train from Ilford to Liverpool Street, and then one stop on the Central Line.

I never understood this logic. Back then I'm sure there were non-stop services from Ilford to Stratford, but from the stoppers it's easier, where as a lot of you will know there is a cross-platform (island platform) connection to the Central Line in the same direction of travel. It's simply madness to change at Liverpool Street given the distance from the mainline platforms down to the Central Line.

For those of you who know Ilford, what route would you have taken? Personally I would have walked to Gants Hill tube* and took the Central Line all the way. More chance of a seat too than at Ilford I would have thought.

*In bad weather I would bus it to Redbridge and continue from there by tube.

Depending on which end of Clarendon Road, I would walk /bus to Gants Hill (Cranbrook Road end) or Redbridge (The Drive end). Either of those would have lighter loaded buses, and the tube would probably be just as easy to get on as the GEML/Crossrail trains at Ilford. I doubt that there would be much difference in end-to-end times given that every other train from Ilford is an all-station. The fast to Stratford ones would obviously be more crowded.

 

[anti-pacer]

Depending on which end of Clarendon Road, I would walk /bus to Gants Hill (Cranbrook Road end) or Redbridge (The Drive end). Either of those would have lighter loaded buses, and the tube would probably be just as easy to get on as the GEML/Crossrail trains at Ilford. I doubt that there would be much difference in end-to-end times given that every other train from Ilford is an all-station. The fast to Stratford ones would obviously be more crowded.

She lived more The Drive end, but I think Redbridge was further than Gants Hill. That said though she travelled from Ilford station and walked from her flat to the station.

As a kid, whenever I went to stay, which was generally twice a month at weekends, we always got the tube from Gants Hill if we were going "up west" (why do people even say that?). I used to moan like hell about having to walk to the station, especially when there were bus stops at either end of the road that had buses to the three local stations (Gants Hill, Ilford, Redbridge).

Whenever I go back to Ilford (Oyster days out), I get the train to Ilford, bus to The Drive, walk down Clarendon Gardens and reminisce. At the Cranbrook Road end it's a bus to Gants Hill, although occasionally I/we may stay on the bus depending on where it's going.

The thought of walking in between? No way! If I want to walk I'll do it in the countryside, not when there's a perfectly good Oyster card or Travelcard burning a hole in my back pocket.

 

[Class 170101]

My aunty lived on Clarendon Gardens, between The Drive and Cranbrook Road in Ilford. She worked near Bank, but always took the train from Ilford to Liverpool Street, and then one stop on the Central Line.

I never understood this logic. Back then I'm sure there were non-stop services from Ilford to Stratford, but from the stoppers it's easier, where as a lot of you will know there is a cross-platform (island platform) connection to the Central Line in the same direction of travel. It's simply madness to change at Liverpool Street given the distance from the mainline platforms down to the Central Line.

For those of you who know Ilford, what route would you have taken? Personally I would have walked to Gants Hill tube* and took the Central Line all the way. More chance of a seat too than at Ilford I would have thought.

*In bad weather I would bus it to Redbridge and continue from there by tube.

Gants Hill to Bank on the tube is almost certainly slower than Ilford to Liverpool Street plus a change even though the walk to Gants Hill is slightly quicker than to Ilford (3 minutes). Until recently there used to be trains that started at Ilford so guaranteed a seat and yes there were some non - stop Ilford to Stratford services. Until recently I don't think there any Newbury Park starters and Ilford starters now start at Chadwell Heath. As far as I know a bus route along The Drive is a relatively recent addition to the TfL Bus network.

 

[anti-pacer]

Gants Hill to Bank on the tube is almost certainly slower than Ilford to Liverpool Street plus a change even though the walk to Gants Hill is slightly quicker than to Ilford (3 minutes). Until recently there used to be trains that started at Ilford so guaranteed a seat and yes there were some non - stop Ilford to Stratford services. Until recently I don't think there any Newbury Park starters and Ilford starters now start at Chadwell Heath. As far as I know a bus route along The Drive is a relatively recent addition to the TfL Bus network.

Buses along The Drive were there in the 80's, I'm sure of it.

EDIT: I've just seen an extract from a 1967 bus map which shows bus routes on The Drive. Also, I do actually remember catching a bus from there to Redbridge station in 1997 with a friend.

 

[306024]

Buses along The Drive were there in the 80's, I'm sure of it.

And the 70s.
And the former Ilford starters now start from Gidea Park, not Chadwell Heath.
I wouldn't believe everything you read on here.

 

[AM9]

... As far as I know a bus route along The Drive is a relatively recent addition to the TfL Bus network.

I clearly remember and travelled along the route 147 along The Drive in the '60s. It went from Redbridge Station to East Ham White Horse (Woolwich Ferry in peaks). Buses first served The Drive in 1935, - see here:
http://www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/current/147.html
They were RTs in the '50s & '60s.

 

[Class 170101]

And the 70s.
And the former Ilford starters now start from Gidea Park, not Chadwell Heath.
I wouldn't believe everything you read on here.

Ah so they do. In any event Ilford bay platform has gone so they won't be operating to / from there.

 

[mrmartin]

Tonight was the worst I've seen it for no real "disruption", caused by chelsea vs west ham.

Honestly there is going to be serious injuries in this place sooner or later - the platforms are so narrow and congested and the passageways are also so busy that I don't think they would be able to react quick enough if something did go wrong.

The only improvements in the near future are going to be a new exit on carpterners road which won't make much difference. Especially considering the 10,000s (100,000s?) of new people moving into the vicinity of the station.

 

[MatthewRead]

Out of interest when was the island platform 9 and 10 built?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Tonight was the worst I've seen it for no real "disruption", caused by chelsea vs west ham.

Honestly there is going to be serious injuries in this place sooner or later - the platforms are so narrow and congested and the passageways are also so busy that I don't think they would be able to react quick enough if something did go wrong.

The only improvements in the near future are going to be a new exit on carpterners road which won't make much difference. Especially considering the 10,000s (100,000s?) of new people moving into the vicinity of the station.

Is it really any worse than places like Clapham Junction or the LU stations at Victoria or Oxford Circus? I think you're just going to have to get used to the fact that Stratford is now an eastern extension of central London so it's very busy a lot of the time.

 

[Minstral25]

Tonight was the worst I've seen it for no real "disruption", caused by chelsea vs west ham.

Honestly there is going to be serious injuries in this place sooner or later - the platforms are so narrow and congested and the passageways are also so busy that I don't think they would be able to react quick enough if something did go wrong.

The only improvements in the near future are going to be a new exit on carpterners road which won't make much difference. Especially considering the 10,000s (100,000s?) of new people moving into the vicinity of the station.

Can't really agree here. Having been to most matches this season the one remarkable thing has been how quickly the thousands of fans have disappeared through the station.

I've used Central Line and Jubilee line to get away and never seen any real overcrowding on the station - very busy yes, but not overcrowded. They are very careful to limit numbers getting in by queueing using stop/go boards on the approaches.

 

[bicbasher]

This is the station that handled thousands every day during the London Olympics. They can cope and it's not like staff won't be prepared for weekly football visits.

 

[dk1]

Out of interest when was the island platform 9 and 10 built?

First appeared in the late 80s during remodelling. BR had no confidence in Londons Docklands hence it was more important to have the 70/80mph linespeed & basic facilities where provided. Wasn't until 1999-2000 that Intercity services started to call regularly & that was only for passengers travelling to the Millenium Dome.