Stratford London after crossrail

[TheNewNo2]

Would it be possible to open up intermediate 'space' using Eastern and Western subways as the boundary walls?

No, because the Docklands Light Railway is between them.

 

[Class 170101]

No, because the Docklands Light Railway is between them.

Now having found a map I can finally remember what I was looking at ages ago. In that case between the Central and Eastern subways?

 

[mrmartin]

Well, looking at the results yesterday it seems increasingly right. I literally do not get how this station is going to cope with crossrail.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is the International station used any more? if it isn't is there realistically any way they could make use of it?

 

[najaB]

Is the International station used any more? if it isn't is there realistically any way they could make use of it?

I believe it is.

 

[swt_passenger]

Is the International station used any more? if it isn't is there realistically any way they could make use of it?

It is used, but it is on a physically completely separate site. Sufficiently far apart for them to build a DLR line connecting the two locations.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If the Brighton-Ashford route ever were to be fully electrified, would it get enough passenger traffic to justify St Pancras-Brighton using Javelins?

 

[NSEFAN]

If the Brighton-Ashford route ever were to be fully electrified, would it get enough passenger traffic to justify St Pancras-Brighton using Javelins?

There was a bit of discussion about doing just that a short while ago, although in the context of the GEML/Central line platforms I'm not sure it would make much difference with the overcrowding at the main Stratford station.

 

[mrmartin]

Just bringing this back up.

They've now implemented a very annoying flow system if you're new to the station. It basically makes you loop the entire station. Though does help, but some very very angry people missing trains because of it.

Still the station is horribly overcrowded despite this. Because of Westfield the station gets really really busy even on weekends. I dread to think what will happen once West Ham add another ~50k ppl to this on a regular basis.

I also think the station is going to be bad in the future:

1) Huge growth in the area (both office, residential, shops/entertainment) alone
2) Crossrail generating more trips, with the potential for significantly more changes - depends if people will do the cross platform change from central line to western stations - I would guess this will outweigh the amount of people that will stay on crossrail all the way to their destination, but that is a guess.

 

[LLivery]

London Underground's management of Stratford is quite poor in my eyes. The lack of proper departure boards in the ticket halls is a joke and the fact they find it appropriate to close the ticket office at a major National Rail station is insane. If LU didn't want it they could of handed it to LO or even AGA.

As for capacity, the station is only going to get busier; with the extension to Westfield, West Ham football, further Olympic Park skyscapers and apartments and the re-development of the old Stratford centre I don't see how the main entrance can stay the way it is beyond 2020. I was surprised back in 2012 that they never added platform canopies on 9/10. After Crossrail opens, some (if not most) West Anglia's will most likely be diverted through and I'd say 11 & 12 should get them too.

 

[mrmartin]

The station is really starting to struggle badly at peak times now, especially in the evening. NR & DLR pax are growing at 10%+ pa and LU at ~5% pa. Combine this with the 10,000s of new houses going up around the area and I can't see this being sustainable.

 

[47513 Severn]

Stratford desperately needs something to take the pressure off the subways. Perhaps a bridge over the west end of the platforms linking them all? This could be used for interchange only, leaving the subways solely for passengers actually entering and exiting the station although I'm not sure how that could be enforced.

The main problem at Stratford is the multitude of interchanges that require crossing a large part of the station. I don't see how Crossrail itself will change that. The only difference it is likely to make is a reduction in the TFL Rail to Central Line transfers as many of those passengers will be better off remaining on Crossrail for West End destinations. As these are cross platform transfers anyway this won't have much impact on the situation in the subways.

 

[hurri67]

Wait until West Ham have a home match at their new stadium.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Wait until West Ham have a home match at their new stadium.

They had a match at their new stadium last weekend against AFC Bournemouth

 

[jopsuk]

Stratford's one of these locations where it's impossible to build the ideal layout as you'd need to shut down the GEML, Central, both DLR branches, Overground and the Lea Valley route all at once for a couple of years... Even then it's hard to work out a truly ideal layout with so many services. It might almost be best if there was an island for each service (GEML Intercity, GEML Outer Suburban, Crossrail, Central Line, Overground, Lea Valley, DLR via Pudding Mill Lane) on the top level, a vast open interchange level below and the Jubilee and DLR to Stratford International underneath the rest of the station, with no cross-platform interchanges at all.

Hell if you were getting rid of Cross Platform, Central Line could be consigned to a lower level. Which would actually help relieve pressure on it.

 

[najaB]

Wait until West Ham have a home match at their new stadium.

Stratford managed multiple Olympic events finishing around the same time and a stadium with 20,000 more seats than it has now.

The sky didn't fall in then, no reason to think it will now.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Stratford's one of these locations where it's impossible to build the ideal layout as you'd need to shut down the GEML, Central, both DLR branches, Overground and the Lea Valley route all at once for a couple of years... Even then it's hard to work out a truly ideal layout with so many services. It might almost be best if there was an island for each service (GEML Intercity, GEML Outer Suburban, Crossrail, Central Line, Overground, Lea Valley, DLR via Pudding Mill Lane) on the top level, a vast open interchange level below and the Jubilee and DLR to Stratford International underneath the rest of the station, with no cross-platform interchanges at all.

Hell if you were getting rid of Cross Platform, Central Line could be consigned to a lower level. Which would actually help relieve pressure on it.

In terms of the actual rail lines, I don't think the current layout is too bad. The only real problem is the way the DLR cuts through the main concourse. I would have thought the obvious way to fix that would be to build some kind of dedicated (moving?) walkway between the main and the International stations, and then there'd be no need for the DLR to continue to International - it could just terminate alongside the Jubilee line. Every time I've been on the DLR, it's been virtually empty between Stratford and Stratford International anyway. (I'm not btw seriously suggesting we spend money doing that now - massive cost for a fairly minor benefit. It could quite usefully - and more cheaply - have been built that way in the first place, though).

It seems to me the real problem is the rather claustrophobic, narrow, (and in my experience, quite confusing) tunnels under the main part of the station. It would've made far more sense to open those tunnels out into a large extension of the concourse. I'm guessing that (a) the only thing stopping this was the cost of excavating out and replacing whatever's between the tunnels with some supporting pillars, and (b) while it would be expensive, that could be done without much disruption to the trains.

(I did suggest that earlier in the thread, but hey that was almost a year ago so I think it's ripe for repeating This is a very long-lived thread!)

 

[Darandio]

Wait until West Ham have a home match at their new stadium.

Erm, if you include the opening of the stadium against Juventus which was also packed, they have had four now.

Catch up.

 

[306024]

Stratford managed multiple Olympic events finishing around the same time and a stadium with 20,000 more seats than it has now.

The sky didn't fall in then, no reason to think it will now.

The Olympics saw people disperse in all directions. The majority of West Ham supporters not surprisingly live out east.

Knowing which subways lead where is key to knowing your way around the station. The western subway is the main route between the Jubilee Line and the northern exit and Westfield. The central subway is the narrowest and leads directly to both exits. The eastern subway us the quietest and best one to use to avoid the crowds if simply changing platforms, but is at the opposite end to the Docklands Canary Wharf bound platforms.

The main thing to remember is the western subway doesn't serve platform 10A.

It seems to me the real problem is the rather claustrophobic, narrow, (and in my experience, quite confusing) tunnels under the main part of the station. It would've made far more sense to open those tunnels out into a large extension of the concourse. I'm guessing that (a) the only thing stopping this was the cost of excavating out and replacing whatever's between the tunnels with some supporting pillars, and (b) while it would be expensive, that could be done without much disruption to the trains.

You would be surprised what is below the surface. When Stratford signal box was demolished it was thought relatively simple to push a box through to extend the central subway. They ran into rails and other debris that was a hell of a job to remove.

I'd agree the Docklands extension to Stratford International is only useful for those with impaired mobility. For most a walk to the Eastern entrance to Stratford International is just as quick.

 

[Class 170101]

Wait until West Ham have a home match at their new stadium.

They had a match at their new stadium last weekend against AFC Bournemouth

Stratford managed multiple Olympic events finishing around the same time and a stadium with 20,000 more seats than it has now.

The sky didn't fall in then, no reason to think it will now.

The command of the station has changed since then. It was Abellio in 2012 now its TfL. Each has different ways of operating and focuses on different passengers as its top priority.

 

[Busaholic]

Just in terms of all the new housing going up/ due to go up round the area is there scope for another station (not one that could serve all lines, obviously) somewhere in relatively close proximity, a bit like Maryland, which, incidentally, will surely see a lot more footfall when Crossrail comes?

 

[najaB]

The command of the station has changed since then. It was Abellio in 2012 now its TfL.

You would think that, if anything, TfL should have more experience dealing with large passenger flows as they handle around 4.5 million journeys a day across the tube network.

 

[Bald Rick]

Just in terms of all the new housing going up/ due to go up round the area is there scope for another station (not one that could serve all lines, obviously) somewhere in relatively close proximity, a bit like Maryland, which, incidentally, will surely see a lot more footfall when Crossrail comes?

As an aside, the case for closing Maryland is overwhelming. It's half a mile from Stratford, and accordingly has low usage. It causes every GE Metro passenger (soon to be Elizabeth line passenger) from east of there to lose 2 minutes each way. With more than 20 million journeys a year affected, that is a lot of time 'lost', for the benefit of less than a million journeys which (generally) would only take 5-10 minutes longer if they walked to Stratford instead. And if the station wasn't there, the junctions there could be properly laid out (higher speeds all round, and a lower maintenance requirement); also there would be no need for SDO.

Nevertheless, it was a provision of the Crossrail Act that Maryland stays open.

 

[Busaholic]

Nevertheless, it was a provision of the Crossrail Act that Maryland stays open.

I hadn't realised that. Given that, though, wouldn't it be a good thing if Maryland got some additional usage? Way too long since I knew the area a bit, but mightn't some passengers currently using Leyton to get to the West End possibly divert there instead (those living to the east and southeast of Leyton tube)?

 

[najaB]

It causes every GE Metro passenger (soon to be Elizabeth line passenger) from east of there to lose 2 minutes each way.

If memory serves correct, not every service stops there.

Edit: Memory doesn't serve correct, I'm thinking of the Sunday timetable.

 

[Bald Rick]

I hadn't realised that. Given that, though, wouldn't it be a good thing if Maryland got some additional usage? Way too long since I knew the area a bit, but mightn't some passengers currently using Leyton to get to the West End possibly divert there instead (those living to the east and southeast of Leyton tube)?

Possibly. But the current interchange at Stratford could hardly be easier.

 

[LLivery]

As an aside, the case for closing Maryland is overwhelming. It's half a mile from Stratford, and accordingly has low usage. It causes every GE Metro passenger (soon to be Elizabeth line passenger) from east of there to lose 2 minutes each way. With more than 20 million journeys a year affected, that is a lot of time 'lost', for the benefit of less than a million journeys which (generally) would only take 5-10 minutes longer if they walked to Stratford instead. And if the station wasn't there, the junctions there could be properly laid out (higher speeds all round, and a lower maintenance requirement); also there would be no need for SDO.

Nevertheless, it was a provision of the Crossrail Act that Maryland stays open.

Just under million entries/exists is that low of a usage. Bethnal Green NR has less. In 2020 it will probably have over 1.2 million if growth remains steady. As for time lost, two mins has no one complaining and the speed really isn't that low. There are now signs in Westfield pointing for people to walk to Maryland instead of using Stratford!

 

[MrPIC]

I used to live almost equal distance between Stratford, Maryland and almost Forest Gate, and Marlyand was always my preferred station (assuming I didn't want the tube etc from Stratford) as its a bit quieter than the others. There's also the 25 and 86 bus routes which shadow the GE Metros from Ilford/Romford respectively

 

[Class 170101]

If memory serves correct, not every service stops there.

Edit: Memory doesn't serve correct, I'm thinking of the Sunday timetable.

Some peak trains are non-stop as well.

 

[mrmartin]

Stratford now 6th busiest station in the UK on the latest stats and by far the fastest growth of any large station. Granted this was somewhat due to methodology changes but I expect this to continue with west ham now playing there, 100ks of homes are being built and crossrail will be coming.

They really need to get a plan together for a total overhaul of the station because if the growth continues it is going to be constantly shut for overcrowding.