Stranraer

[Blindtraveler]

next question, is what if anything wil citylink do to there edinburgh and glasgow to Ireland coaches, cvrrently via stranrar?

 

[rail-britain]

A 47 & a rake of coaches to a 2 car 156 is diminishing to me!

Agreed, I remember many of the Glasgow - Stranraer were 7 coaches (sealink livery) capacity 312
These were then reduced to 5 coaches capacity 216
Initially the Class 156 units operated in pairs capacity 300

The Euston - Stranraer was replaced by the Stranraer - Newcastle
Initially this operated as a pair between Stranraer and Carlisle

Later many of the Stranraer services were reduced to just the single unit, and that pretty much sums up the falling demand from the 1980s to now
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

next question, is what if anything wil citylink do to there edinburgh and glasgow to Ireland coaches, cvrrently via stranrar?

I don't see why they would change anything
Dump the passengers at the terminal, then head into the town

 

[Flying Snail]

The date for the changeover has been set as Tuesday November 22. Timetables for the new service are now up on the Stena website http://www.stenaline.ie/ferry/routes/belfast-stranraer/timetable

From the information about the new port section of the website:

"Public Transport / Onward Travel
Onward bus connections available to and from Ayr Railway station for passengers on selected sailing who have pre-booked a Rail & Sail ticket to Glasgow, Edinburgh and other rail destinations in Britain.
Further info: www.stenaline.co.uk/rail"

No details about which sailings have connections yet.

It would have made more sense to upgrade Stranraer ferry terminal rather then move it to Loch Ryan because of the rail link.


Makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense, the new terminal cuts the sailing time by over 30 minutes. The new sailing times are 2h15m down from 3 hours.

1h30 per round trip is a big saving for Stena, not to mention it allowing them to compete better with P&O whose advertising tagline for the route has for years been "The Shortest, Fastest Crossing" although this will still be true Belfast port is better located for most onward destinations than Larne.

IIRC Loch Ryan would be a shorter crossing (AIUI the HSS can't go full speed until it exits the Loch) with better road access (Freight is the main thing for the ferry co)

The HSS will not be used on the route after November 21, two identical conventional ferries new to the route (currently named "Superfast VII" and "Superfast VIII")are being refurbished and will replace HSS Stena Voyager along with the two current conventional ferries Stena Caledonia and Stena Navigator.

Foot passengers arriving by train ar eof no interest at all to the ferry company. Cars full of passengers and lorries full of goods are of great interest. Business wise it's not worth them investing 50p in Stranraer.

Correct. The freight and car market is where they make their money, at the current numbers there is hardly any profit in foot passengers, particularly sail-rail where the fare % is barely enough to cover the additional cost of catering for walk-ons.

Before the low cost air revolution I remember travelling on the Holyhead route on a full to capacity 2000 passenger ship the vast majority of which were foot passengers. Current ferries are 10 times the size of that but typically have around half the passenger capacity, the extra size is to cater for trucks and cars, foot passengers are an afterthought at best.

 

[Paul Kelly]

A friend of mine travelled Reading to Stranraer with just one change (in Newcastle) less than two years ago. I think it was the December 2009 timetable change that the through Newcastle trains stopped.

The return train departs Stranraer at 1443 but only runs as far as Kilmarnock, why didn't Scotrail run it into Glasgow instead of having to change at Ayr for a busy commuter train to Glasgow?

Arguably more relaxing/easier to stay on to Kilmarnock and change onto the train coming from Newcastle, to head into to Glasgow on the Glasgow South Western line. Fewer stops and not a commuter train. But it takes nearly half an hour longer. It's all quite silly though and the pretense that the train timetable is run to suit the boats really annoys me.

 

[Flying Snail]

I don't see why they would change anything
Dump the passengers at the terminal, then head into the town

Do Ulsterbus/Citylink no longer run through coaches on that service? I know they used to.

There are no "shipside" services on the Holyhead or Rosslare Eurolines routes any more although there is an odd arrangement with the Dublin-Leeds service where a change of coach is undertaken at Holyhead port. Shipside services were always less popular than through services with passengers as they had to drag their bags around at the ports.

Arguably more relaxing/easier to stay on to Kilmarnock and change onto the train coming from Newcastle, to head into to Glasgow on the Glasgow South Western line. Fewer stops and not a commuter train. But it takes nearly half an hour longer. It's all quite silly though and the pretense that the train timetable is run to suit the boats really annoys me.

You ought to avoid the Holyhead route then where they have dropped all pretense and are engaged in ensuring trains do not connect with ferries.

Fishguard is now the only port left on the Irish sea with co-ordinated ship-rail connections, just don't expect trains (or a train station) at the other side.

 

[JoeGJ1984]

I don't see why the ferry companies seem to consider foot passengers an afterthought, because with communication between the ferry companies and the TOC, a coordinated timetable could run on the north coast line to Holyhead and then the ferry to Dublin.

I don't see why these numbers have dropped, because I thought that a lot of people living in, eg Manchester or Liverpool might use the train to Holyhead and then the ferry to Dublin, rather than drive and have the hassle of parking, etc. Perhaps there is a market (if the times work) for a day trip and the rail+sail would seem an attractive option.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Do Ulsterbus/Citylink no longer run through coaches on that service? I know they used to.

I am awaiting a reply to the letter that I have written to Scottish Citylink Coaches Limited, as the telephone conversation was only with a junior member of staff. I was given the name of a senior member of the company to write to, with regard to the specific queries raised with regards to Cairnryan.

 

[starrymarkb]

Do Ulsterbus/Citylink no longer run through coaches on that service? I know they used to.

The Ulsterbus/NatEx does - at least I think it did (was hard to understand the driver's thick accent and I was only going to Manchester

 

[bkhtele]

Stena site is now partly updated, it shows rail connections after mid November but talks about a bookable bus from Ayr rail station to Cairnryan

 

[junglejames]

It would have made more sense to upgrade Stranraer ferry terminal rather then move it to Loch Ryan because of the rail link.

Stranraer is in Loch Ryan. Anyway, think of the depth of the approach channel and drafts.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I can't help feeling Stranraer is finished in the not to distant future.

Look what happened to the train service to Fleetwood and the station itself, if you want to make a west-coast comparison.

 

[CarterUSM]

Look what happened to the train service to Fleetwood and the station itself, if you want to make a west-coast comparison.

Stranraer is STILL a depot with 4 or 6 drivers/guards , but i'd be surprised if it is in ten years time. Still half decent passenger traffic on the line , but nowhere near even 5 years ago. Out of all the lines in Scotland, or the UK, this one, in my opinion is the most vulnerable to closure .

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Stranraer is STILL a depot with 4 or 6 drivers/guards , but i'd be surprised if it is in ten years time. Still half decent passenger traffic on the line , but nowhere near even 5 years ago. Out of all the lines in Scotland, or the UK, this one, in my opinion is the most vulnerable to closure .

I agree mate, methinks Girvan will be the (operational) end of the line by 2025.

 

[autotank]

I hope not. I went for an enjoyable trip over the line earlier this year - one of the forgotten gems of the British railway network. Once the ferry service has stopped perhaps the timetable should be looked at to provide a more even spread of service on the southern section of the line. Stranraer is a decent sized town and deserves a rail service. It would be a real shame if this line closed.

 

[bkhtele]

With a bit more co-ordination the rail sail service could be excellent especially now that airports are so poor! Stranraer terminal though reminds me of a 70's airport and all the waiting around now is rubbish.
From a 1957 timetable Belfast train arrives at Larne Harbour 8.47 Ferry leaves 9am. Arrives Stranraer 11.45 Train leaves 12.15. It is because there is so much waiting around now and/or watching a train leave while you are still on the boat that people discount this service.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Stranraer is STILL a depot with 4 or 6 drivers/guards , but i'd be surprised if it is in ten years time. Still half decent passenger traffic on the line , but nowhere near even 5 years ago. Out of all the lines in Scotland, or the UK, this one, in my opinion is the most vulnerable to closure .

It was with a similar time scale in mind ( say 5 -10 years ) after the ferry removal, that I made my comments. Can you foresee any other new source of rail traffic in the Stranraer area in that forward period of time, that might be a compensatory factor?

Have the political parties in Scotland made any comment upon the position of Stranraer as a railhead?

 

[CarterUSM]

It was with a similar time scale in mind ( say 5 -10 years ) after the ferry removal, that I made my comments. Can you foresee any other new source of rail traffic in the Stranraer area in that forward period of time, that might be a compensatory factor?

Have the political parties in Scotland made any comment upon the position of Stranraer as a railhead?

I can't recall any comment being made by a political party Paul, and I can't forsee any new source of rail traffic either, it seems that the powers that be are content to let the line wither away.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I am awaiting a reply to the letter that I have written to Scottish Citylink Coaches Limited, as the telephone conversation was only with a junior member of staff. I was given the name of a senior member of the company to write to, with regard to the specific queries raised with regards to Cairnryan.

I now have received the promised letter which states that when the terminal is open in November, their 923 service to Stranraer will be servicing it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I now have received the promised letter which states that when the terminal is open in November, their 923 service to Stranraer will be servicing it.

The Scottish Citylink web site now gives the Winter 923 Edinburgh-Glasgow-Stranraer service, effective from 3rd October, together with the sea crossing, plus the onward Northern Ireland bus service.

 

[bkhtele]

Interesting report done on Stranraer to Ayr railway outlining it's tourist potential
http://www.transformscotland.org.uk/GetFile.aspx?ItemId=180

 

[Blindtraveler]

quite interesting. though have to say that there would personally be little to attract me to stranrar. I'm glad that citylinks coaches wil service the port when it moves however its another mail in the coffin for the rail line which really does need a bit of help. Can any of the Scotrail staff on this thread give us an indication as to loadings and more important, how much of them are Irish see passfngers compared to local traffic?

 

[CarterUSM]

As far as I can tell, the 1142 Central - Stranraer is still reasonably well loaded perhaps just about 3 quarters full, the return leg a little less so. These seem to have a majority of ferry foot traffic. The rest don't compare that well however, it must be said though, that I rarely work Stranraers.

 

[harz99]

Interesting report done on Stranraer to Ayr railway outlining it's tourist potential
http://www.transformscotland.org.uk/GetFile.aspx?ItemId=180

Unfortunately nobody took any notice of the report conclusions; between Scotrail citing operational needs and Transport Scotland insisting that any changes are cost neutral, nothing has or will be changed.

As regards foot pax using the train, more use the coach service from Stranraer Port as it is at least guaranteed to connect, the train isn't.

Stena don't help; very much in the style of the budget airlines they consider themselves a point to point service. I have in recent past stood on the stern of the HSS as we left port whilst pax were alighting from the late running rail service.

Equally the Scotrail staff on that occasion didn't help; stopping at the north end of the platform to exchange tokens with the signalman, then drawing right along to the far end of the platform before letting pax out cost several minutes that might just have saved the day for intending ship pax.

No joined up transport you see................

In truth Stena are not interested in Foot Pax; nor in the foot Scotland to Ireland daytrip trade which by their previous rejig of sailings they made virtually impossible.

The only future the Ayr-Stranraer line has is for local trade; it will only attract that by a combination of more attractive fares, more attractive timings and certainly more attractive rolling stock.....................nobody is listening though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Somebody earlier asked about the old military railway; it cannot reach either the existing port or the new port in Cairnryan as to do so would mean passing right through P&O's terminal and port, so that is a no go before the cost is even considered.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Somebody earlier asked about the old military railway; it cannot reach either the existing port or the new port in Cairnryan as to do so would mean passing right through P&P's terminal and port, so that is a no go before the cost is even considered.

It was I who asked about this in posting # 30, much earlier in the thread, as I remembered reading about this as part of a historical book on British military railways very many years ago. You have been the only one to respond to this and I thank you for giving the current reasons why its use would not be feasible these days. Still, it is worth looking at all available rail options for any rail-served area that becomes under threat of losing its raison d'etre as eventually happened to Amlwch when Octel closed their plant, which took away any possible hope of retaining the line for future rail use as part of the national rail network.

 

[harz99]

Have the political parties in Scotland made any comment upon the position of Stranraer as a railhead?

No, but the SNP person responsible for transport (forget his name) has said that the Ayr-Stranraer is safe and will remain open. Of course this assurance is only good as long as the SNP are in charge, or even only as long as the tenure of the person giving the assurance in post.

It seems almost certain that the remaining goods sidings/sheds etc. will be sold off under plans submitted by Network Rail, which D&G Council have approved, so the likelihood of any future freight traffic will be nil.

Improvement work has been in the pipeline from DGC to provide a proper integrated Transport Interchange for Stranraer for some time now; it is hoped that if and when this starts the existing Harbour Station will also be retained and remain connected to the local trackwork: otherwise the likelihood is a short 4 car platform, no run round facilities and thus of course no special trains - we shall see.

 

[Greenback]

No, but the SNP person responsible for transport (forget his name) has said that the Ayr-Stranraer is safe and will remain open. Of course this assurance is only good as long as the SNP are in charge, or even only as long as the tenure of the person giving the assurance in post.

It must be better than having no assurances at all though?

I

t seems almost certain that the remaining goods sidings/sheds etc. will be sold off under plans submitted by Network Rail, which D&G Council have approved, so the likelihood of any future freight traffic will be nil.

If we follow the usual UK example, the infrastructure will be removed, then a few years down the line will have to be reinstated, costing a lot more!

Improvement work has been in the pipeline from DGC to provide a proper integrated Transport Interchange for Stranraer for some time now; it is hoped that if and when this starts the existing Harbour Station will also be retained and remain connected to the local trackwork: otherwise the likelihood is a short 4 car platform, no run round facilities and thus of course no special trains - we shall see.

I have never been to Stranraer, so I don;t know the location of the town or the harbour station, so I am curious whether there would be any benefit in retaining the station?

If it's like Fishguard Harbour, wouldn't it be better to relocate the station? If there is easy access from the town, though, leave it where it is!

 

[rail-britain]

The Scottish City link web site now gives the Winter 923 Edinburgh-Glasgow-Stranraer service, effective from 3rd October, together with the sea crossing, plus the onward Northern Ireland bus service.

Then doesn't this completely miss the point of having a (mis-)connecting rail service...
The only people to use the Stranraer train service will be the locals and the lost, with virtually no ferry passengers

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Then doesn't this completely miss the point of having a (mis-)connecting rail service... The only people to use the Stranraer train service will be the locals and the lost, with virtually no ferry passengers

Scottish Citylink are not at all concerned with the rail service, They seem to run a coach service that connects with ferry sailings, for those travellers wishing to use that mode of transport to visit Northern Ireland. If this service was running at a loss from Edinburgh and Glasgow to Stranraer, due to very low passenger loadings. it would not be in existence.

 

[phil8715]

I travel through Stranraer twice a year summer and Christmas. It will be interesting to see what the official travel arrangements are to catch the ferry from Loch Ryan. Normally I catch a train from Preston (PRE) to Glasgow Central then the 1142 service to Stranraer arrives at 1356 to connect with 1430 HSS to Belfast.

If the train was to run into Stranraer as usual they would either have make the ferry later so all the ferry passengers are bussed to Loch Ryan in order to catch the ferry or Scotrail need to re-time the train to leave Glasgow earlier which would cause a knock on effect from passengers travelling from the south.

 

[rail-britain]

Scottish Citylink are not at all concerned with the rail service, They seem to run a coach service that connects with ferry sailings

I know, that is exactly what I mean, why get the train when the coach goes direct
The total journey time will be about the same, but the coach fare will be more attractive to customers

The same issue applies on some of their other routes, there is no advantage in train journey time and usually this is the determining factor between the two
Example :
£5 by coach for one hour
£12 by train for one hour