Stranraer "Boat Train"

[Buzby]

When the Port Road closed the sleeper was diverted via the Mauchline-Ayr line, not via Kilmarnock, which came later (mid 1970's?).

Tks for that - I suppose passengers were lucky not to do a lap round St Enoch!

 

[Gloster]

When the Port Road closed the sleeper was diverted via the Mauchline-Ayr line, not via Kilmarnock, which came later (mid 1970's?).

Mauchline No. 1-Blackhouse Junction closed to passengers on 5 May 1975 and Blackhouse Junction-Hawkhill Junction closed entirely on the same date. The latter was the east to south connection where the line joined the Glasgow-Ayr line that allowed through running without reversal.

 

[DesDobramento]

It is interesting to document the early scheduled use of Class 47 in Scotland, where Haymarket locos were the mainstay on internal passenger services (Edinburgh & Glasgow <> Aberdeen) post-steam using boiler-fitted Class 40s, later joined from 1965 by new Class 47s (boiler fitted). English locos (bar a few Haymarket Deltics) and modern rolling stock provided cross-border (Inter-City) services. In the early 1970s, ScR-allocated ETH-fitted 47/4s were limited to 1975 (later 47517) at Haymarket which was effectively captive to the few ECML daytime services projected north from Edinburgh to Aberdeen, and later joined by 1968 (47516).

On full electrification of the West Coast route in 1974, the region gained a further small allocation of 47/4s. These then saw use north from the then-limit of electrification towards Perth/Inverness on passenger ETH-only fitted services such as The Clansman. My clear recollection of The Clansman northbound service in early days was that it was re-engined at Braidhurst (not Mossend Yard at least at this stage) where I recall it sitting on the main line for the change rather than being 'looped'.

Thus the early allocation of 47/4s to Scottish Region would be unlikely to have seen their use at Stranraer, but from the mid-1970s there was a steady trickle of boilered Class 47s to Eastfield to work alongside 40s.

Reference to the 0810 Queen Street/Aberdeen often being worked by an English-allocated 47 is interesting but I doubt that this was part of an 'official' cycle, rather being whatever had arrived in Scotland on an overnight West Coast freight and was therefore on hand for a fill-in daytime turn to Aberdeen and back, in a not-dissimilar manner to the wanderings of Class 50s on fill-in (freight) daytime work around Perth between sorties on the overnight Perth/Euston (a separate seats/sleeper service to the Royal Highlander).

 

[1D54]

Probably one for the 'Back in the Day thread' but i did this journey on only one occasion.

I did 1S96 which left Nuneaton at 23:30 behind 86252 which left Carlisle at 02:06 behind 47529 and i have a record of it being piloted by 27063 to Stranraer.

Stranraer to Larne on the Antrim Princess at 07:30

Departed Larne at 09:30 on unit number 069.

Came back that evening on the same unit and boat.

1M14 from Stranraer at 22:00 hauled by 47448 and 86243 from Carlisle to Euston.

Admittedly i remember very little of the day but memories of RUC getting on and searching buses in Belfast City Centre Check Point stand out as does my bag being searched on arrival back at Stranraer.

 

[MadMac]

When the Port Road closed the sleeper was diverted via the Mauchline-Ayr line, not via Kilmarnock, which came later (mid 1970's?).

The Blackhouse Junction-Hawkhill Junction curve closed in 1975, so they would have gone via Kilmarnock and Barassie after that.

 

[102 fan]

Our school went to London via Stranraer in 1985, although by coach from there. I wasn't into BR loco's at the time but it looked like a Class 40 or 37 at Stranraer.

 

[Taunton]

Reference to the 0810 Queen Street/Aberdeen often being worked by an English-allocated 47 is interesting but I doubt that this was part of an 'official' cycle, rather being whatever had arrived in Scotland on an overnight West Coast freight and was therefore on hand for a fill-in daytime turn to Aberdeen and back, in a not-dissimilar manner to the wanderings of Class 50s on fill-in (freight) daytime work around Perth between sorties on the overnight Perth/Euston (a separate seats/sleeper service to the Royal Highlander).

This embraced early 1974, immediately before the WCML electrification, which must have made a considerable reduction in the number of turns for England-based diesels into Scotland, and indeed freed a good number up for reallocation. They then became quite common on many Scottish routes, by the early 1980s I recall a Kilmarnock to Carlisle trip with one hauling just five coaches.

The GSWR main line to Glasgow via Kilmarnock was through the 1960s-70s run with "Peaks", running through from Leeds and the various Midland Lines depots. I'm aware they were eventually banned, along with Class 40, from Glasgow Central station due to derailments with their 4-axle bogies, though wonder why it took so long for this to manifest itself. Did Peaks used to reach Stranraer?

 

[75A]

Probably one for the 'Back in the Day thread' but i did this journey on only one occasion.

I did 1S96 which left Nuneaton at 23:30 behind 86252 which left Carlisle at 02:06 behind 47529 and i have a record of it being piloted by 27063 to Stranraer.

Stranraer to Larne on the Antrim Princess at 07:30

Departed Larne at 09:30 on unit number 069.

Came back that evening on the same unit and boat.

1M14 from Stranraer at 22:00 hauled by 47448 and 86243 from Carlisle to Euston.

Admittedly i remember very little of the day but memories of RUC getting on and searching buses in Belfast City Centre Check Point stand out as does my bag being searched on arrival back at Stranraer.

Larne station is still very much alive and kicking. and has trains timed to the Ferries.

 

[Gloster]

Larne station is still very much alive and kicking. and has trains timed to the Ferries.

But was moved inland in 1974.

 

[Magdalia]

In the early 1970s, ScR-allocated ETH-fitted 47/4s were limited to 1968 (47516) and 1975 (47517) at Haymarket which were effectively captive to the few ECML daytime services projected north from Edinburgh to Aberdeen.

When the MarkIID air conditioned stock was introduced on the ECML in 1971, there was only one daytime train Kings Cross to/from Aberdeen, which were the up and down Aberdonian. The first phase of the class 47 ETH conversions only included one Scottish loco, which was 1975, later 47517. I don't know exactly when the up and down Aberdonian first got air conditioned stock, but they are shown as air conditioned in my May 1972 Kings Cross WTT. My understanding is that 1975 was used almost entirely on the up and down Aberdonian in 1972/73.

The second daytime train Kings Cross to/from Aberdeen, 1400 down and 0900 up, started in May 1973. However, my sources say that 47516 was part of the second phase of the class 47 ETH conversions, fitted with ETH and renumbered to 47516 at the same time in October 1973. Is that right. or did ETH get fitted while the loco was still 1968?

47516 then went on loan to Inverness for crew training in the first half of 1974. Railway Observer June 1974 has 47516 working the inaugural up Clansman on 6 May 1974, but the down train going forward from Mossend with 47143. Did the Clansman start with non air conditioned stock?

On full electrification of the West Coast route in 1974, the region gained a further small allocation of 47/4s (47424/427)

Five class 47/4s came to Scotland from the Western in May 1974, 47466/467 to Eastfield and 47469/470/471 to Haymarket. 47424/427 were a bit later, arriving at Eastfield in December 1974.

Thus the early allocation of 47/4s to Scottish Region would be unlikely to have seen their use at Stranraer

I agree. Crewe had lots of class 47/4s to cover Stranraer from the Carlisle end.

 

[Acathater]

........47516 then went on loan to Inverness for crew training in the first half of 1974. Railway Observer June 1974 has 47516 working the inaugural up Clansman on 6 May 1974, but the down train going forward from Mossend with 47143. Did the Clansman start with non air conditioned stock?

I caught the Clansman at Birmingham several times around 1978-79 and it certainly wasn't air conditioned then

 

[MadMac]

This embraced early 1974, immediately before the WCML electrification, which must have made a considerable reduction in the number of turns for England-based diesels into Scotland, and indeed freed a good number up for reallocation. They then became quite common on many Scottish routes, by the early 1980s I recall a Kilmarnock to Carlisle trip with one hauling just five coaches.

The GSWR main line to Glasgow via Kilmarnock was through the 1960s-70s run with "Peaks", running through from Leeds and the various Midland Lines depots. I'm aware they were eventually banned, along with Class 40, from Glasgow Central station due to derailments with their 4-axle bogies, though wonder why it took so long for this to manifest itself. Did Peaks used to reach Stranraer?

The Glasgow-Carlisle via G&SW workings were customarily 26 or 27, but just about anything could show up.

The ‘Peaks’ off the Thames-Clyde normally worked into 9 or 10 at Central: the issue arose when someone tried routing one into Platform 1. I’ve mentioned previously how one did, for whatever reason, get sent from Carlisle post-ban but was spotted by the Barrhead signalman: a call was made to Central box and they ensured that it was routed into a higher numbered platform. I don’t believe they made it beyond Ayr.

 

[bangor-toad]

But was moved inland in 1974.

Hi,
Are you sure?

I think that Larne Harbour is still located where it was originally built in 1862. It's in the harbour and it's part of the small harbour complex for foot passengers.

Larne Town station was originally located on the western most part of the curve coming into Larne. That was relocated in (I think) 1974 when the new A8 connection was built across onto the reclaimed land. The new Larne Town station is located further along the line, closer to the current retail area and harbour.

Of course, it's still frustrating that there are no rail sail tickets valid via Larne and there is no useful non car link from the P&O site in Cairnryan!

Cheers,
Mr Toad

 

[Gloster]

Hi,
Are you sure?

I think that Larne Harbour is still located where it was originally built in 1862. It's in the harbour and it's part of the small harbour complex for foot passengers.

Larne Town station was originally located on the western most part of the curve coming into Larne. That was relocated in (I think) 1974 when the new A8 connection was built across onto the reclaimed land. The new Larne Town station is located further along the line, closer to the current retail area and harbour.

Of course, it's still frustrating that there are no rail sail tickets valid via Larne and there is no useful non car link from the P&O site in Cairnryan!

Cheers,
Mr Toad

Well comparing the current day overlay on the PRONI site, which conveniently shows an outline of the coastline, with the OSNI Fourth edition, it does appear that the line was cut back and the station building demolished to make way for better road access to the berths. It may be that the platform in use is the outer end of the old platform: the muddy detail on the OSNI makes it difficult to tell.

 

[hexagon789]

I don't know exactly when the up and down Aberdonian first got air conditioned stock, but they are shown as air conditioned in my May 1972 Kings Cross WTT.

I understood it was May 1972 as well, though there's a photo of the train on Flickr, 9th May 1972, with Mk2A stock and steam heat emissions visible!

Did the Clansman start with non air conditioned stock?

Mk2C stock, switching to 2D/F air-con in 1975 as Mk3 vehicles appeared freeing up Mk2 air-cons.

I caught the Clansman at Birmingham several times around 1978-79 and it certainly wasn't air conditioned then

Definitely booked air-con by then and from the photos I've seen of the train, quite reliably air-con bar the odd vehicle substitution.

 

[bangor-toad]

Well comparing the current day overlay on the PRONI site, which conveniently shows an outline of the coastline, with the OSNI Fourth edition, it does appear that the line was cut back and the station building demolished to make way for better road access to the berths. It may be that the platform in use is the outer end of the old platform: the muddy detail on the OSNI makes it difficult to tell.

I see what you mean.
I think the PRONI 1:10000 map shows the old platform extending to the west of Olderfleet Road which is where the current station platform is. The new (1980s) station building itself has been built about 30m westwards of the original location shown.

It's still an easy foot transfer from rail to the ferry at Larne Harbour.
Cheers,
Mr Toad

 

[Falcon1200]

I’ve mentioned previously how one did, for whatever reason, get sent from Carlisle post-ban but was spotted by the Barrhead signalman:

I recall another occasion when it was noticed in time and a loco change was arranged at Barrhead.

 

[75A]

h

It's still an easy foot transfer from rail to the ferry at Larne Harbour.
Cheers,
Mr Toad

Certainly is, I used this crossing 7 times last year and there were always people using it,

 

[D1537]

Certainly from the 80s onwards the Euston-Stranraer trains were booked for Crewe 47/4s north of Carlisle, with the overnight northbound train (1S06) often getting a pilot loco from Ayr. However, given the common user pool of the 47/4 fleet it was not unusual at all for it to be from another depot, including Scottish ones.

My photo here shows Inverness-based 47541 "The Queen Mother" having arrived in the early morning at Stranraer Harbour with pilot loco 27026. August 1985.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I don’t think that it would have been Carlisle traincrew right through as Carlisle men only knew as far as Kilmarnock or, possibly, Ayr. Thereafter it would have been either Ayr or Stranraer men.

Depending on the crew balances it could have been either Carlisle or Ayr crew between those points.
They may well have worked one way on freight and the other on the sleepers as the Stranraer sleepers passed each other north of Carlisle, or perhaps an Ayr crew working to Dumfries and back.
Ayr or Stranraer for the Stranraer leg - Stranraer to Ayr and back possible in a shift albeit with a long layover in Ayr.

The Glasgow-Carlisle via G&SW workings were customarily 26 or 27, but just about anything could show up.

In the 70s there were very few trains on the route, a couple of DMUs (1 set of LMR a.m from Carisle, returning mid day, 1 ScR set early evening from Glasgow with the return terminating Kilmarnock), plus the through workings to/from the S&C (two daytime, one overnight) and one daytime Euston and two overnights each way.