Strangest bus destination screens?

[Pat1105]

E is/was used a lot to indicate short route, mostly used for last short journeys to the depot, certainly in my area E was mostly used for this purpose, doesn't seem to be the case now

Nowadays, NX short journeys that are timetabled do not use ‘E’. Instead, they just display the normal number and destination. For example, there is a 19 (Dudley - QEH) journey that is timetabled to terminate at Halesowen. It just displays 19 & Halesowen + the relevant via points.

 

[mirodo]

Peculiarly, the Transdev Burnley services often show an intermediate point in larger font, with the ultimate destination in smaller font below.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/east_lancs/36216287661 (not my picture).

Image shows an M3 service, with “Padiham” on one line of the display, with “then Accrington” in smaller font below.

 

[kez19]

If you don't mind the absence of via points, do you have any objection if they are included? You can just look at the destination, I can look at the via points as well, then everyone's happy.

The thing is for me is if you are not use to an area

‘E’ stands for exception, not evening. It indicates a variation to the normal line of route, mainly that the bus is terminating short of its normal destination. These variations aren’t timetabled journeys. There can be many points along a route that an ‘E’ numbered journey will run to. They are points where the bus can turn around safely, for example roundabouts (or islands if you’re from the Midlands!) They do this to recover from lateness, often caused by delays such as heavy traffic or an accident, and get the vehicle back running on time. For example, the 23 normally runs from Birmingham to Bartley Green. However, if the bus is running substantially late, the driver may be radioed and told to run as a 23E to California to minimise how late they are running and try to get back on time.

If it makes it any easier to understand, it’s practically the same as a curtailment in London.

I think the E is added so that it stands out to passengers, as some people just look at the number on the destination screen and pay little attention to where the bus is going. NXWM use the inverted function on Helen to display ‘PART ROUTE’ so that it stands out.

I think Xplore Dundee are using the E and for not that reason, the route is basically Whitfield to Ninewells Hospital but it terminates at The Crescent in Whitfield (turns around at The Crescent) but then heads back around normal route (route can take from Whitfield to City Centre about 45 mins was the longest!, but from City Centre to Ninewells its about 15 mins), so i'll throw this as well so why run a bus displaying it as 17 Whitfield but to go out to Ninewells Hospital as an E? why not just keep it as 17 or just rebrand it 17E? I think sometimes management at Xplore/City Council couldn't organise a p**s up at a brewery when it comes to routes!

I'll throw something else I read regarding timetable changes at Xplore (changes were happening before the virus came about) but they said something about journeys going so far as such would be indicated by a 9 ... so on display something like 929 would be displayed on the displays? Info on site no longer available....

I'll add in regards the E it was only applied to the 17 in the evenings it wasn't applied on services during the day which is why I thought E meant evening (as in the time NX has been running it services in Dundee I have never seen them use E let alone Part Route)

 

[Pat1105]

Peculiarly, the Transdev Burnley services often show an intermediate point in larger font, with the ultimate destination in smaller font below.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/east_lancs/36216287661 (not my picture).

Image shows an M3 service, with “Padiham” on one line of the display, with “then Accrington” in smaller font below.

This is because of a registration regulation. Basically, the route is split into different ‘sections’ as they are all separate registrations, as the route is too long to be registered as one. The registration regulations are a bit complicated, and that’s for another thread. Technically, each registration or section (whichever you want to call it) exists as a separate service. In which case, companies will display on the destination sign where the end of the first registration or section of route is, in the example you mention, it is Padiham.

 

[Pat1105]

The thing is for me is if you are not use to an area



I think Xplore Dundee are using the E and for not that reason, the route is basically Whitfield to Ninewells Hospital but it terminates at The Crescent in Whitfield (turns around at The Crescent) but then heads back around normal route (route can take from Whitfield to City Centre about 45 mins was the longest!, but from City Centre to Ninewells its about 15 mins), so i'll throw this as well so why run a bus displaying it as 17 Whitfield but to go out to Ninewells Hospital as an E? why not just keep it as 17 or just rebrand it 17E? I think sometimes management at Xplore/City Council couldn't organise a p**s up at a brewery when it comes to routes!

I'll throw something else I read regarding timetable changes at Xplore (changes were happening before the virus came about) but they said something about journeys going so far as such would be indicated by a 9 ... so on display something like 929 would be displayed on the displays? Info on site no longer available....

I'll add in regards the E it was only applied to the 17 in the evenings it wasn't applied on services during the day which is why I thought E meant evening (as in the time NX has been running it services in Dundee I have never seen them use E let alone Part Route)

It might be that Dundee & West Mids differ slightly in how they use the ‘E’.

 

[mirodo]

This is because of a registration regulation. Basically, the route is split into different ‘sections’ as they are all separate registrations, as the route is too long to be registered as one. The registration regulations are a bit complicated, and that’s for another thread. Technically, each registration or section (whichever you want to call it) exists as a separate service. In which case, companies will display on the destination sign where the end of the first registration or section of route is, in the example you mention, it is Padiham.

Sounds a bit daft, but I understand your explanation. I’m sure it didn’t used to be like this - the service was the 23(?) to Accrington. Have the rules on route/section registrations changed?

 

[Pat1105]

Sounds a bit daft, but I understand your explanation. I’m sure it didn’t used to be like this - the service was the 23(?) to Accrington. Have the rules on route/section registrations changed?

It is daft and I don’t understand why they have this rule. I’m not sure when these rules came in, but I think they’ve been in place for at least 10 years.

 

[kez19]

It might be that Dundee & West Mids differ slightly in how they use the ‘E’.

So why use it in the first place I would ask NX/Xplore use to have evening services as an A well actually they do for the 9/10s in the evenings, but for the 17s its now the E as before it just ran as a 17/A to City Centre it just looks more of they like experimenting with these new letters on a route for no real reason (its bad enough the route doesn't get the newer buses at the best of times!)

 

[carlberry]

This is because of a registration regulation. Basically, the route is split into different ‘sections’ as they are all separate registrations, as the route is too long to be registered as one. The registration regulations are a bit complicated, and that’s for another thread. Technically, each registration or section (whichever you want to call it) exists as a separate service. In which case, companies will display on the destination sign where the end of the first registration or section of route is, in the example you mention, it is Padiham.

I don't think that this rule applies here (however I could be wrong). The route isn't long enough (it's nowhere near the 50km/32 miles that the rule kicks in at), the service is all on one registration and, if it was doing this because of the registration issue, the display should read Padiham for Accrington. It appears to just be a variation on the theme of 'Accrington via Padiham'.

 

[Pat1105]

I don't think that this rule applies here (however I could be wrong). The route isn't long enough (it's nowhere near the 50km/32 miles that the rule kicks in at), the service is all on one registration and, if it was doing this because of the registration issue, the display should read Padiham for Accrington. It appears to just be a variation on the theme of 'Accrington via Padiham'.

No, the rule is that a passenger on a local service has to be able to get off 15 miles (in a straight line) from where they got on. The definition of wether the route is registered as a local service is if a passenger can get off 15 miles from where they got on. Long distance services (coaches) are exempt, as passengers often can’t alight 15 miles away from where they got on.
The use of ‘then’ and ‘for’ on the destination is basically the same thing and depends on the company.

 

[carlberry]

No, the rule is that a passenger on a local service has to be able to get off 15 miles (in a straight line) from where they got on. The definition of wether the route is registered as a local service is if a passenger can get off 15 miles from where they got on. Long distance services (coaches) are exempt, as passengers often can’t alight 15 miles away from where they got on.
The use of ‘then’ and ‘for’ on the destination is basically the same thing and depends on the company.

The 15 mile rule is the definition of a UK local bus service; if the service has stops that are within 15 miles (or less) of each other it has to be registered as a bus service, if not then it's a coach service and dosent have to be registered. However a local bus service can be any length. If it exceeds 32 miles/50km then international driver regulations kick in and this is the point at which some companies then split the registration to avoid them and then have to display the two different destinations.

 

[Statto]

It is daft and I don’t understand why they have this rule. I’m not sure when these rules came in, but I think they’ve been in place for at least 10 years.

Might be to do with EU laws if the service is over 30 miles, Stagecoach buses on X2 Liverpool-Preston, the first leg to Southport will show Southport then Preston, or Southport then Liverpool on the blinds, then change the blinds when the bus reaches Southport to Preston or Liverpool with a via scrolling blind as buses operate through

 

[Megafuss]

I always found the Stagecoach East Busway destination boards look strange how they have the destination in big letters as the bottom line and the "via" places as the top line. As seen here https://images.app.goo.gl/73yXYQzf1SCnGNbN9

 

[martyjon]

In my area via points are essential on the blind as from the small town I live in there are 5 services to Bristol each following a different route depending on which via villages the service serves.

 

[edwin_m]

Do they run a quicker bus from Burnley to Accrington not via Padiham? If so they may be encouraging people to use that instead.

 

[carlberry]

In my area via points are essential on the blind as from the small town I live in there are 5 services to Bristol each following a different route depending on which via villages the service serves.

Do they all have the same number?

 

[aliceh]

I always found the Stagecoach East Busway destination boards look strange how they have the destination in big letters as the bottom line and the "via" places as the top line. As seen here https://images.app.goo.gl/73yXYQzf1SCnGNbN9

Yellow Buses do that here too. And since they began to use "then" (not for reasons of length or anything, they just extended one route from a major shopping centre to a small industrial estate and presumably didn't want people to get confused) you now have a destination board reading:
then Yeoman's Ind Est
CASTLEPOINT

Which makes zero sense!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In my area via points are essential on the blind as from the small town I live in there are 5 services to Bristol each following a different route depending on which via villages the service serves.

LED screens vs blinds are a godsend in respect of via points. United Auto (my local firm) did put VIA points on some blinds but not others. One confusion would be catching a bus to Heighington (a village between Darlington and Bishop Auckland).

You could catch the 16 that would display "HEIGHINGTON" https://www.flickr.com/photos/markh737/27763683599/in/photolist-Jio8RZ-V1Wi8F-914sxP
OR the 1 to "CROOK" or "TOW LAW" which took about 20 mins! https://www.flickr.com/photos/66289...LL-neNHSc-qA9a8Y-Jio8RZ-ndHW2z-pw4Egw-fKr4wj/

The difference being the 16 went via Newton Aycliffe (55 mins) whilst the 1 went direct (and still does) and took about 15-20 mins.

 

[duncombec]

Do they run a quicker bus from Burnley to Accrington not via Padiham? If so they may be encouraging people to use that instead.

There is, the 9, but that only runs once an hour, I believe.

Looking at the map, I'd hazard the following guess:
Both the M1 and M2 go to Padiham, then the M1 to Accrington and the M2 to Clitheroe. Passengers for the outer destinations can look for their number (M1 or M2), whilst passengers for Padiham can look at the destination, rather than for both numbers. *

It appears to be a sort of local destination to start with, and then I presume drivers either reset the blinds at a set point, or may eventually, if not already, happen automatically. Seems like a sensible compromise to me.

I have seen running boards from other companies where drivers are instructed at which point on the journey to change the blinds, particularly where journeys run through.

*That said, although Accrington might be close enough not to need a split destination, what about Clitheroe or Keighley? If they do, perhaps the blinds are just always set the same way? What do the M2 blinds look like?

 

[Trackman]

As for Diamond Northwest Destination displays I know upto recently they had someone who was in charge of the CCTV sorting it out in his spare time but he's recently been put on furlough so nothing seems to be done with them at the moment.

As if by magic, there was a software update yesterday.
I know this as whilst I'm stuck up here on lockdown sometimes I watch the buses in the morning with my cuppa to see how many are on.
The 36 goes by me and on Tuesday it said 'Piccadilly - via Salford Shopping centre' and 'Bolton Interchange via..'
Now it says 'Manchester - via ...' and 'Bolton - via ..'
Only slight snag now is that it doesn't say whereabouts in Manchester it's going - Bolton should be OK as I think all buses go to the interchange.
This could be remidied by changing the side/door displays to the full destination, i.e Manchester Shudehill. (at the moment it just says 'Manchester') .. if you're listening Diamond..

 

[JetBlast]

Peculiarly, the Transdev Burnley services often show an intermediate point in larger font, with the ultimate destination in smaller font below.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/east_lancs/36216287661 (not my picture).

Image shows an M3 service, with “Padiham” on one line of the display, with “then Accrington” in smaller font below.

They have started to put them side by side. I think it looks too cluttered

Rosso 736 (YX10BGE) 28012020

Rosso 736 (YX10BGE), with Rochdale Runners branding, was photographed at Rochdale Interchange on 28 January 2020 when it was operating route 435 to Shaw and Buckstones. This Alexander Dennis Enviro 200 was new to First Centrewest, numbered DML44158, in April 2010 as a 29-seat dual doorway bus...

www.flickr.com

 

[duncombec]

They have started to put them side by side. I think it looks too cluttered

Rosso 736 (YX10BGE) 28012020

Rosso 736 (YX10BGE), with Rochdale Runners branding, was photographed at Rochdale Interchange on 28 January 2020 when it was operating route 435 to Shaw and Buckstones. This Alexander Dennis Enviro 200 was new to First Centrewest, numbered DML44158, in April 2010 as a 29-seat dual doorway bus...

www.flickr.com

It does in that particular example, I grant you, but this is how destination blinds were created in the days of roller blinds in this area, often on a much smaller space.

Maidstone & District 5206

A206OKJ Wayfield Road, Chatham 23/11/89

www.flickr.com

(Not my picture - first one I found that did the trick!)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It does in that particular example, I grant you, but this is how destination blinds were created in the days of roller blinds in this area, often on a much smaller space.

Maidstone & District 5206

A206OKJ Wayfield Road, Chatham 23/11/89

www.flickr.com

(Not my picture - first one I found that did the trick!)

Or you could have the two end points, either on top or side by side

UNITED 832 URB822S AND 699 UGR699R REST INSIDE DURHAM DEPOT

UNITED 832 URB822S / 699 UGR699R DURHAM DEPOT

www.flickr.com

 

[Westcountryman]

Preserved RT604 has a destination of Cow Roast on its final destination blind. Cow Roast is on the old London Transport 301 Watford Junction- Aylesbury service between Northchurch and Tring. I don't know whether services actually terminated there as one of the people involved with the bus is involved in producing blinds.

Another London destination was Ovaltine Works in Kings Langley, with several works services terminating there. The works building is still there. It is a rather nice Art Deco building which has retained its frontage, but has been converted to residential, rather like the Hoover's building at Perivale has been converted to a Tesco's.

A third, rather older destination is Bata Shoe Factory near Tilbury.

 

[SCH117X]

Peculiarly, the Transdev Burnley services often show an intermediate point in larger font, with the ultimate destination in smaller font below.

Common format Transdev Blazefield have adopted - 36s from Leeds to Ripon for example have that layout with Harrogate in the larger font; conversely in opposite direction its Leeds in the larger font with Harrogate in the smaller font.

 

[daodao]

Returning to the theme of odd destinations, but continuing the theme of "via" points on blinds, here is a photo from 1959 of a bus route (94) I was very familiar with as a child, as I lived close to its terminus (Southern Cemetery). The route was extremely roundabout, going via Piccadilly and Deansgate in the city centre. It seems to have been created when the tram services in the northern part of the city were abandoned and the routes were reorganised just before WW2; tram route 37 was converted to bus operation in 2 stages, but the 2 parts were put back together again as bus route 94 when trams finally ceased operating in Manchester in 1949. The western vestige of route 94 (latterly route 84) disappeared a few years ago, presumably as custom had diminished with opening of new tram services to Chorlton along the former Manchester and South District line.


Curiously, all 3 "via points" on the extra blind that all Manchester buses used to have are on the first part of the route along Stockport Road, and there is no mention of the city centre, or points beyond it. However, if Chorlton had been displayed, this would have been confusing, as there was a much quicker route (joint MCT/NWRCC 22) from the same terminus at Levenshulme Lloyd Road where this photo of a Crossley bus, made almost next door, was taken.

 

[kez19]

Just an odd question - on the electronic displays I have noticed this is with Xplore Dundee in question but I doubt Xplore/NXWM are the only ones but the destination fonts appear different
ie Whitfield is in one font one bus then it appears on another bus in another font?, (examples say on one bus it looks like Arial is used and on another its Courier how does that work? I assumed when I see buses with Go North East the fonts look the same but its only number displays vary? ie X1, and the 4 by memory! (Stagecoach Newcastle seems to have the same font for both destination and number X63 etc), it can't be my eye sight as its clear as day!, I'm sure Arriva does this too on some pics on Flickr

 

[PeterC]

Preserved RT604 has a destination of Cow Roast on its final destination blind. Cow Roast is on the old London Transport 301 Watford Junction- Aylesbury service between Northchurch and Tring. I don't know whether services actually terminated there as one of the people involved with the bus is involved in producing blinds.

Another London destination was Ovaltine Works in Kings Langley, with several works services terminating there. The works building is still there. It is a rather nice Art Deco building which has retained its frontage, but has been converted to residential, rather like the Hoover's building at Perivale has been converted to a Tesco's.

A third, rather older destination is Bata Shoe Factory near Tilbury.

I have a 1968 timetable for the 301 and it doesn't show any Cow Roast terminators, that doesn't mean though that it wasn't available as an option on the blinds but I am not sure where they could have turned a bus there. Short workings started or finished at Tring Garage.

I remember that Green Rovers weren't valid on the routes to the Bata factory.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Regarding font, Lothian are quite big on using their "classic" one, and when TfL eventually joins the 21st century they will be too.

Transdev Yorkshire also use a specific font as part of their branding.

 

[Trackman]

Well, with Diamond and the new software update they must have added this...