Strange routing restriction

[onlinespotting]

please move if in wrong thread:

Just bought an off peak return from Stoke on Trent to Manchester pic (all Tocs)

At the bottom of the screen on the virgin ticket machine under any permitted route and off peak restrictions it said (not via Southsea Hoverpt)

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

please move if in wrong thread:

Just bought an off peak return from Stoke on Trent to Manchester pic (all Tocs)

At the bottom of the screen on the virgin ticket machine under any permitted route and off peak restrictions it said (not via Southport Hoverpt)

Yes, this is a bit of a weird thing. It seems that the route code 00000, which means Any Permitted, has a "not via" point of Southsea Hoverport. Presumably this is to prevent tickets routed Any Permitted being routed via there! (I imagine to require travellers to hold something in the same style of Any Permitted + Hovertravel for the Hovertravel service).

 

[A Challenge]

Do you mean Southsea not Southport?

 

[reb0118]

Certain fares in Scotland for flows nowhere near the Fort William to Mallaig section state they are not valid via the Jacobite steam service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, this is a bit of a weird thing. It seems that the route code 00000, which means Any Permitted, has a "not via" point of Southsea Hoverport. Presumably this is to prevent tickets routed Any Permitted being routed via there! (I imagine to require travellers to hold something in the same style of Any Permitted + Hovertravel for the Hovertravel service).

Because it would make far too much sense just to route all through tickets onto the Island via Ryde.

 

[onlinespotting]

It was southsea hoverport. I did think Southport at first.

 

[akm]

Because it would make far too much sense just to route all through tickets onto the Island via Ryde.

Yes, but by hovercraft or by ferry? Both operators will want every penny they are entitled to, and by implication will not want the other getting a penny they are NOT entitled to...

 

[A Challenge]

Route them all either one way or the other, as any permitted are get only so call or something like ANYPERM+WHTLNK

 

[Merseysider]

Route them all either one way or the other, as any permitted are get only so call or something like ANYPERM+WHTLNK

That’s already the case.

 

[A Challenge]

Then if there are no tickets on ANY PERMITTED to the IOW why is that needed?

 

[Merseysider]

Then if there are no tickets on ANY PERMITTED to the IOW why is that needed?

It’s for computers more than humans. Booking engines can do funny things sometimes

 

[kieron]

Then if there are no tickets on ANY PERMITTED to the IOW why is that needed?

There are "any permitted" tickets to and from stations on the Isle of Wight, in addition to the "Any Permitted+Wightlink" and "Any Permitted+Hovertravel" ones.

For example, someone going from West Drayton to Ryde Esplanade has a choice of "+via London" and "any permitted" tickets. A "+via London" ticket would be valid on either route across the Solent, as far as I know.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s not, and this is the confusion. To be valid on Hovertravel they must explicitly mention it.

 

[alistairlees]

A "+via London" ticket would be valid on either route across the Solent, as far as I know.

This is not quite right:
- there is an easement that forbids tickets routed "Any Permitted" to be used on the hovercraft (that would not affect what kieron is saying, but I am including it for completeness)
- another easement requires travel on hovercraft to be routed "Hovertravel" (so that does ban "via London" or "Three Bridges" fares, for example)
- the fares data has a ban on travelling via Southsea Hoverport for all "Any Permitted" routes (a very poor way of implementing something like this)

In addition the staff on the hovercraft are on the lookout for any ticket which is not routed "Hovertravel". They have a reference book with what's allowed and what isn't.

The outcome of this is:
- fares including "Hovertravel" in the routing are only valid on the hovercraft
- fares routed "Wightlink" are only valid on the ferry
- fares routed "Any Permitted", "via London", "Three Bridges" etc. are also only valid on the ferry.

In other words, there is no longer any fare that is valid on both. Which is a bit of a shame really.

 

[A Challenge]

If a ticket is valid on a route that is less expensive than that (for example VIA WARRINGTON on ANY PERMITTED route for Chester to Liverpool Stations), surely this also applies to, say, Fratton to Ryde St John's Road, where the OFF-PEAK DAY R ticket on route VIA HOVERTRAVEL is £21.50 and a OFF-PEAK DAY R route VIA WIGHTLINK is £24.50, so surely this is allowed in both.

Does this not work on Hovertravel (and would it work if the fares were the other way round?), or am I remembering it wrong?

 

[yorkie]

Does this not work on Hovertravel (and would it work if the fares were the other way round?), or am I remembering it wrong?

That's not a geographical restriction

 

[A Challenge]

I would have said it did restrict the route used, but if it is seen as not, you can still excess a VIA HOVERTRAVEL ticket to a VIA WIGHTLINK in one direction for half the difference (£1.50), or the other way (from VIA WIGHTLINK to VIA HOVERTRAVEL) as a Zero-Fare excess

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I would have said it did restrict the route used, but if it is seen as not, you can still excess a VIA HOVERTRAVEL ticket to a VIA WIGHTLINK in one direction for half the difference (£1.50), or the other way (from VIA WIGHTLINK to VIA HOVERTRAVEL) as a Zero-Fare excess

The rules do not officially permit excessing from a company-restricted ticket to anything else (whether it be another company restriction, a route restriction or no restriction at all).

 

[A Challenge]

The rules do not officially permit excessing from a company-restricted ticket to anything else (whether it be another company restriction, a route restriction or no restriction at all).

It hadn't occured to me it was a TOC restriction as neither Hovertravel Limited nor Wightlink Limited operate any train services, and it is generally routed TOC ONLY for a TOC-restricted ticket, and not with ANY PERMITTED in the name (like ANY PERM+HOVRTVL or ANY PERM+WIGHTLK), not VIA X, which is usually a place, except in the same of HOVERTRAVEL/WIGHTLINK.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

It hadn't occured to me it was a TOC restriction as neither Hovertravel Limited nor Wightlink Limited operate any train services, and it is generally routed TOC ONLY for a TOC-restricted ticket, and not with ANY PERMITTED in the name (like ANY PERM+HOVRTVL or ANY PERM+WIGHTLK), not VIA X, which is usually a place, except in the same of HOVERTRAVEL/WIGHTLINK.

Can of worms labelled "do not open!"

 

[roversfan2001]

Another weird routeing restriction I came across a couple of weeks ago is Leyland to Blackpool North is no longer routed "ANY PERMITTED", but instead "VIA PRESTON". This was an entirely useless change as as far as I know, there's no way to avoid Preston on such a journey...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another weird routeing restriction I came across a couple of weeks ago is Leyland to Blackpool North is no longer routed "ANY PERMITTED", but instead "VIA PRESTON". This was an entirely useless change as as far as I know, there's no way to avoid Preston on such a journey...

There is a programme of removing "Any Permitted" flows because they cause confusion, and putting a via point in where there is only one logical one, such as Preston in this case.

 

[yorkie]

Another weird routeing restriction I came across a couple of weeks ago is Leyland to Blackpool North is no longer routed "ANY PERMITTED", but instead "VIA PRESTON". This was an entirely useless change as as far as I know, there's no way to avoid Preston on such a journey...

The DfT and RDG claim this is making things simpler for passengers.

 

[A Challenge]

A restriction to go through the only access point for a branch is simpler is it? I suppose it isn't restricting routes in this case at least!

 

[father_jack]

The "southsea hoverport" message only seems to appear on the new type of wretched Worldline TVMS.......

 

[Bletchleyite]

The DfT and RDG claim this is making things simpler for passengers.

I don't see how it makes things any worse in this case, it's not exactly restricting the routes you can take. Indeed, it might be vaguely helpful for someone who hasn't done the journey before by pointing out where to head first.

 

[A Challenge]

In all likeliness you will change at Preston anyway in this case, and only at Preston, I don't think there are any through services are there?

 

[roversfan2001]

In all likeliness you will change at Preston anyway in this case, and only at Preston, I don't think there are any through services are there?

There's three an hour (though they all leave within 13 minutes of each other).

 

[CHAPS2034]

I bought an all TOCs Stockport- Stoke yesterday from the Virgin ticket office at Stockport. It was printed on a bog roll and marked "valid only via Macclesfield".

 

[Merseysider]

I bought an all TOCs Stockport- Stoke yesterday from the Virgin ticket office at Stockport. It was printed on a bog roll and marked "valid only via Macclesfield".

Presumably to prevent passengers travelling via Crewe, an entirely reasonable but not permitted route