Strange HST consist at Bristol Temple Meads (BRI)

[mr williams]

On Friday I was at Bristol Temple Meads waiting for a train to Newport when I happened to look at the 125 across the platform waiting to depart for London.

There was a Coach A at both ends (yes, a standard class beyond the 1st class carriages but as you'd imagine not one passenger in it), no Coach E, the buffet was in Coach F but it was a standard, not 1st class carriage.

I was just curious if anybody knew if there was any particular reason for this, and looking at the buffet car does anybody remember when the 125s first came in there was a small 2nd buffet further down the train?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . does anybody remember when the 125s first came in there was a small 2nd buffet further down the train?

Was there?
I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly but wasn't there a buffet/bar and also a separate kitchen car?

 

[Dreadnought]

On Friday I was at Bristol Temple Meads waiting for a train to Newport when I happened to look at the 125 across the platform waiting to depart for London.

There was a Coach A at both ends (yes, a standard class beyond the 1st class carriages but as you'd imagine not one passenger in it), no Coach E, the buffet was in Coach F but it was a standard, not 1st class carriage.

Coach A is the TGS and I have witnessed sets running round formed like this a number of times, usually the one at the 1st class end is locked out of use. Maybe it is part of a planned stock move to get it to another depot without the need for a special train running.

As for the buffet, fGW now have a 19 standard class coaches modified as Cafe bars to replace full buffet coaches and lettered F. As a result of this one of the normal standard coaches was removed from the sets, in this case it was E.

 

[anthony263]

I have been on a HST from swansea which has had 2 coach E's. 1 being in place of coach A

 

[The Barlow Boy]

Was there?
I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly but wasn't there a buffet/bar and also a separate kitchen car?

The original Inter-City 125 as first operated on the Western Region of British Rail after their 1976 introduction came in two formations.
1 TF-TF-TSRB-TS-TS-TS-TS
2 TF-TF-TRUK-TS -TSRB-TS-TS
It was fairly quickly realised that having two catering vehicles seriously compromised seating capacity so the TRUKs were hived off to the Eastern region as they aquired their HSTs and a new-build design of TRUB was used to replace both the TRUK and the TSRB in the W.R. formations.
I can't remember which year the TGS was introduced to give the Guard a better - and safer - ride. Safer? I know of at least three occasions that a side door on the power cars - the rear of which was equipped with the Guard's cubby hole whipped open whilst the train was at speed. Fortunately no-one fell out and we were built of sterner stuff in those days.

 

[embers25]

These new 7 coach sets with the smaller buffet make sense for Hereford and Cheltenham but they are also running on West Country runs leading to overcrowding in both classes due to less first and less standard seats. Also when arriving at stations the buffet queue prevents coach E pax from alighting at one end causing delays and also slows boarding with those on the platform unaware trying to fight past the buffet queue to board. Also those sat at the end of coach E now have an almost permanent queue standing next to their seats which can't do much for a peaceful journey! One good thing is that it's location prevents loitering by large groups or people drinking and yelling like I've experienced on many of my trains during my weekend season ticket rove abouts.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

The original Inter-City 125 as first operated on the Western Region of British Rail after their 1976 introduction came in two formations.
1 TF-TF-TSRB-TS-TS-TS-TS
2 TF-TF-TRUK-TS -TSRB-TS-TS

Thanks for confirming that BB. (Its ca. 35 years since I commuted at Paddington when I will have seen HSTs in that formation, so I'm grateful to have my recollection confirmed!)

I know of at least three occasions that a side door on the power cars - the rear of which was equipped with the Guard's cubby hole whipped open whilst the train was at speed. Fortunately no-one fell out and we were built of sterner stuff in those days.

But that, I didn't know!
Even today, though, I've seen doors not fully flush with the body on the ECML and wondered . . . .

 

[TGVDUDE]

I was once in Taunton months ago awaiting the arrival of the 67s from Painton and a HST was there with a TGS labelled coach 'X' where the normal First Class Coach is behind the power car

 

[LE Greys]

I've seen this happen before. Laira once formed a scratch set, possibly out of the surviving stock from Southall and Ladbroke Grove, and as a result of various failures. It was PC-TGS-TS-TF-TS-RFB-TF-TF-TGS-PC. I travelled in coach C once, which was a declassified TF to keep the seat numbers up. Not many other people knew about it. Payback for my school billing my parents for first class travel and issuing second class warrants.

 

[Flamingo]

I was once in Taunton months ago awaiting the arrival of the 67s from Painton and a HST was there with a TGS labelled coach 'X' where the normal First Class Coach is behind the power car

Had one yesterday, 2+7 with a coach X labelled TGS being towed behind the in-use TGS (making it a 2+8). Obviously LOOU as no through access, but at every station I had to shout at people not to use it (especially in South Wales with the rugby crowds).

 

[mr williams]

Was there?
I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly but wasn't there a buffet/bar and also a separate kitchen car?

Slightly off the original topic and doubly as guilty as I started the thread, but when the "Travelling Chefs" were introduced I was surprised at the announcements of how "ground breaking" the idea was.

I first started travelling on the Western Region 125s in about 1978 and in those days you could get eg burger and chips from the buffet - real chips that is - and remember that microwaves were only barely coming in in those days. In July 1979 I went up to London on a SATURDAY morning from Newport, and bought a freshly cooked breakfast of bacon, egg, tomato and toast served in a small plastic tray (I could only afford 2nd class in those days, 1st class might have got a real plate!).

Now your "breakfast roll" at the buffet is pre-cooked and re-heated and the Travelling Chefs (originally touted as being on 300 services a week) is down to a handful. Indeed, some London - Bristol services have run with just a trolley service and FGW has been talking about removing catering altogether.

"Ground breaking" indeed!

 

[jopsuk]

A "chef" is a distinct title above a cook- it implies a higher standard of food.

 

[bnm]

Now your "breakfast roll" at the buffet is pre-cooked and re-heated and the Travelling Chefs (originally touted as being on 300 services a week) is down to a handful. Indeed, some London - Bristol services have run with just a trolley service and FGW has been talking about removing catering altogether.

The "breakfast roll" is long gone. Replaced with a bacon baguette.

Trawling through the web archive for FGW it appears there were 300 Travelling Chef services in 2002, down to 200 by 2006 and currently 149. In 2001 there were 18 Pullman services (inc. 4 lunchtime Pullman Bistros), now there are just 4.

A shame that the catering provision has been cut so drastically, but it is a hard-nosed business decision. FGWs catering (particularly freshly prepared hot food) on HSTs makes a loss.

I'm doing my bit to keep those losses down - I try wherever possible to use the Travelling Chef and often plan trips so as to include services with TCs. I think its a case of use it or lose it.

A final, pedantic, point. I wouldn't say 149 Travelling Chef services is 'a handful'.

 

[Greenback]

A final, pedantic, point. I wouldn't say 149 Travelling Chef services is 'a handful'.

As a fellow pedant I'd like to point out it's less than half the number there were in 2002!

 

[The Barlow Boy]

There was also much play of the beer on tap in the buffet. That didn't last long! In those days Westbourne Park was still there with it's curve and the signalling was from Old Oak panel. Now the line's been straightened and the line's been resignalled.
I expect that that's the reason an HST is now timed at 24 minutes from Padders to Reading instead of the 22 minutes we were taking in 1977.
Mind you, before they were fitted with the speed limiters...............

 

[Flamingo]

There was also much play of the beer on tap in the buffet. That didn't last long! In those days Westbourne Park was still there with it's curve and the signalling was from Old Oak panel. Now the line's been straightened and the line's been resignalled.
I expect that that's the reason an HST is now timed at 24 minutes from Padders to Reading instead of the 22 minutes we were taking in 1977.
Mind you, before they were fitted with the speed limiters...............

A lot of mine are timed at 30 minutes, but that's because the Heathrow Express keeps getting priority at Airport Junction, and we are timed to stop for it.

 

[TEW]

I was once in Taunton months ago awaiting the arrival of the 67s from Painton and a HST was there with a TGS labelled coach 'X' where the normal First Class Coach is behind the power car

The coach X is used on Newquay trains in the summer for extra luggage space.

Indeed, some London - Bristol services have run with just a trolley service and FGW has been talking about removing catering altogether.

"Ground breaking" indeed!

The trolleys have been gone for a while and with the investment in installing the micro buffets its unlikely they would now be removed.

 

[Flamingo]

The trolleys have been gone for a while and with the investment in installing the micro buffets its unlikely they would now be removed.

What he said

The best one I heard about the trolley service went something like:
Aggressive drunk passenger "I want a complaint form"
TM "Oh dear sir, what's the problem?"
Passenger "There's no **** buffet car"
TM "Refreshments are available in coach A, sir"
Passenger "That's**** all use, I want a complaint form"
TM "OK, I'll get you one now sir - Oh hang on, I can't"
Passenger "Why the **** not?"
TM "We keep them in the buffet car"

TM walks off sniggering.

 

[mr williams]

Coach A is the TGS and I have witnessed sets running round formed like this a number of times, usually the one at the 1st class end is locked out of use. Maybe it is part of a planned stock move to get it to another depot without the need for a special train running.

That sounds likely - I saw the consist at Temple Meads again this week and the Coach A at the 1st class end had gone

. In 2001 there were 18 Pullman services (inc. 4 lunchtime Pullman Bistros), now there are just 4.

A final, pedantic, point. I wouldn't say 149 Travelling Chef services is 'a handful'.

In 1994/95 Bristol was served by 19 restaurant cars (11 through Parkway, 8 to/from Temple Meads) now there are none.

I accept that 149 on the entire region isn't a handful, but it's only a handful to Temple Meads - there isn't even one on the main peak breakfast-time trains any more.

 

[hstforever81]

talking of unusual formations , i remember seeing on the midland mainline a TG but First Class and also at Hull Paragon in 1992 when they still had the mid day IC service to Kings X, seeing a TGS with buffers at the power car end.

 

[Dreadnought]

talking of unusual formations , i remember seeing on the midland mainline a TG but First Class and also at Hull Paragon in 1992 when they still had the mid day IC service to Kings X, seeing a TGS with buffers at the power car end.

Presumably this would have been one of the TGSs used when the 91s were first running on the ECML with HST sets prior to the Mk4s arriving.

 

[90019]

Presumably this would have been one of the TGSs used when the 91s were first running on the ECML with HST sets prior to the Mk4s arriving.

I thought they used Mk3As with only the powercars being modified?

 

[Royston Vasey]

Never seen or been aware of any First Class "TGF" coaches, only "TGS".

It is possible that a LHCS Mk3 TGS could have been adjacent to the PC during the Class 91 testing/commissioning period with the 91 on the other end. The DVT PCs could attach to the Mk 3 stock thus through the buckeye coupling and still supply ETS in service:

See http://www.traintesting.com/images/43013%20on%20test%20train%20Doncaster%20to%20BN%2012-05-89.jpg and similar pictures.

However since Hull is not electrified it is strange that DVTs and LHCS would be there with a 91. Was it definitely at Hull (not Donny for example?) Alternatively it could possibly been a scratch rake called into service in a shortage around that time when the coaches and DVTs could have been sitting there spare??

Maybe we'll never know!

 

[Oracle]

I started commuting in 1976 at weekends from Bristol Parkway and TM to Feltham via Reading, when I was a student. Once we left TM in the Up direction, then the set was turned via Dr Days Junction on the triangle there.

 

[90019]

It is possible that a LHCS Mk3 TGS could have been adjacent to the PC during the Class 91 testing/commissioning period with the 91 on the other end.

IIRC, HST and LHCS Mk3s use different types of ETS. (I think HSTs use three phase? Can't remember exactly though)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Never seen or been aware of any First Class "TGF" coaches, only "TGS".

I'm not aware of any of the normal Mk3s to have anything like that, but I believe the BREL international rake had a BFK.

 

[TEW]

http://www.rollingstock.fotopic.net/p53728540.html
Not quite a TGF but pretty much one. A MK3b BFO.

 

[Royston Vasey]

IIRC, HST and LHCS Mk3s use different types of ETS. (I think HSTs use three phase? Can't remember exactly though)

It's a puzzle actually. Normally that is right, but I had it in my head that the HST DVTs had their ETS modified as well. On second thoughts the 91 could supply LHCS itself so I may be mistaken!

 

[hstforever81]

Never seen or been aware of any First Class "TGF" coaches, only "TGS".

It is possible that a LHCS Mk3 TGS could have been adjacent to the PC during the Class 91 testing/commissioning period with the 91 on the other end. The DVT PCs could attach to the Mk 3 stock thus through the buckeye coupling and still supply ETS in service:

See http://www.traintesting.com/images/43013%20on%20test%20train%20Doncaster%20to%20BN%2012-05-89.jpg and similar pictures.

However since Hull is not electrified it is strange that DVTs and LHCS would be there with a 91. Was it definitely at Hull (not Donny for example?) Alternatively it could possibly been a scratch rake called into service in a shortage around that time when the coaches and DVTs could have been sitting there spare??

Maybe we'll never know!

Yeah was defiantly Hull. the TGS was behind County of Nottingham (can't remember the number of the power car now). i did have a photo of it, can't remember the unit where i saw the TGF though

 

[LE Greys]

It is possible that a LHCS Mk3 TGS could have been adjacent to the PC during the Class 91 testing/commissioning period with the 91 on the other end. The DVT PCs could attach to the Mk 3 stock thus through the buckeye coupling and still supply ETS in service:

Several TGSes (I think it was five, not sure which ones) had drop-head couplers and buffers fitted, so it's unlikely that they ever ran at the south end unless the whole set got reversed.

 

[Andrew Nelson]

Went on GC from Bradford the other Day, and there wasn't even 1 coach A. Bit stange.