Story not believed by STM staff at Bradford Forster Square

[OwlMan]

What is the problem?

A member at staff at the barrier is suspicious of a passenger who arrives on an Ilkley train and asks for a ticket from Leeds.
As is his perogative he askes the customer for his details and then refers the case to a higher authority.

Are we not jumping the gun?

 

[ainsworth74]

What is the problem?

A member at staff at the barrier is suspicious of a passenger who arrives on an Ilkley train and asks for a ticket from Leeds.
As is his perogative he askes the customer for his details and then refers the case to a higher authority.

Are we not jumping the gun?

Probably as I hope that when the case get to Northern's Prosecutions department they'll be able to see that buying a Leeds - Bradford ticket when you've come from Baildon is perfectly fine.

But I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing what to do if they do decide to take action if for no other reason than it might help provide some reassurance to the OP whilst they wait!

 

[najaB]

What is the problem?

A member at staff at the barrier is suspicious of a passenger who arrives on an Ilkley train and asks for a ticket from Leeds.
As is his perogative he askes the customer for his details and then refers the case to a higher authority.

Yes, actually, that is a problem. There was nothing suspicious about the ticket that the OP asked for. And it would take no more than a moment's thought to realise that there's no way the OP could have 'jumped the barriers' at Leeds given that the train they alighted from didn't pass through Leeds. Now the OP is worrying that they are going to potentially be prosecuted for a crime they could not possibly have committed.

I'm a well-known 'train company apologist' and even I think this is bang out of order.

 

[bradders1983]

Yes, actually, that is a problem. There was nothing suspicious about the ticket that the OP asked for. And it would take no more than a moment's thought to realise that there's no way the OP could have 'jumped the barriers' at Leeds given that the train they alighted from didn't pass through Leeds. Now the OP is worrying that they are going to potentially be prosecuted for a crime they could not possibly have committed.

I'm a well-known 'train company apologist' and even I think this is bang out of order.

In which case any sane judge would laugh it out of court within seconds.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I cant imagine at noon-ish train from Ilkley to Bradford being that busy, to be honest.

No, but stations are every few minutes and it's tough to do revenue as well as the doors. Plus the ticket machines tend to be temperamental.

None of that is relevant though. The issue is that the STM person thought the OP was trying to evade a fare, even though the Leeds-Bradford single (£4.80) is almost double the price of the Baildon-Bradford single (£2.60), the OP told them he'd come from Baildon and the train didn't come from Leeds.

With any other TOC I'd expect them to say sorry and ask you for the fare due, but sadly I think Northern will send an £80 Penalty Fake instead.

 

[OwlMan]

Yes, actually, that is a problem. There was nothing suspicious about the ticket that the OP asked for. And it would take no more than a moment's thought to realise that there's no way the OP could have 'jumped the barriers' at Leeds given that the train they alighted from didn't pass through Leeds. Now the OP is worrying that they are going to potentially be prosecuted for a crime they could not possibly have committed.

I'm a well-known 'train company apologist' and even I think this is bang out of order.

Don't forget that we have only heard one side of the story - there could be all sorts of reasons why the member of staff became suspicious - and if he did he followed the correct course oif action.

 

[najaB]

Don't forget that we have only heard one side of the story - there could be all sorts of reasons why the member of staff became suspicious - and if he did he followed the correct course oif action.

I not denying that they followed the correct course of action for suspicious circumstances. What I am saying is that there was nothing to be suspicious about.

Once again, the STM revenue protection officer accused the OP of jumping the barriers at Leeds when they had travelled from Baildon.

 

[OwlMan]

I

Once again, the STM revenue protection officer accused the OP of jumping the barriers at Leeds when they had travelled from Baildon.

No she did not - the OP assumed that .

 

[najaB]

No she did not - the OP assumed that .

In the OP:

Someone from STM security then took me to a side saying how did you come from Leeds without a ticket it's a manned station.

Basically, asking how the OP came from Leeds without a ticket as it's a manned station, is accusing them of somehow bypassing the barriers. Regardless, that is another red herring as the OP couldn't have bypassed the barriers at Leeds as they travelled from Baildon on a train that didn't call at Leeds.

 

[WelshBluebird]

To be fair, asking the question of how you boarded at Leeds after asking for a ticket from Leeds isn't really an issue IMO. it certainly isn't an isn't really an accusation of any wrong doing, more just working out what the situation actually is. But the member of staff should have them accepted the OPs reasoning.

I have had this issue before at Bristol Temple Meads, getting on a train at Keynsham (unmanned, no ticket office or machine) and travelling to Bristol but at Bristol asking for a ticket from Bath (as I was returning to Bath). Staff were polite but still asked about how I didn't have a ticket from Bath, but were more than happy with my explanation.

 

[najaB]

To be fair, asking the question of how you boarded at Leeds after asking for a ticket from Leeds isn't really an issue IMO. it certainly isn't an isn't really an accusation of any wrong doing, more just working out what the situation actually is. But the member of staff should have them accepted the OPs reasoning.

I agree that asking a clarifying question is reasonable, but:

She said it's neither here nor there what I just said as she has to go by what I first said so took my name, address, DOB, and age and checked my drivers license to verify this

doesn't sound like it was a clarifying question, it sounds like they had decided that they had 'caught' someone trying it on.

 

[Clip]

In the OP:
Basically, asking how the OP came from Leeds without a ticket as it's a manned station, is accusing them of somehow bypassing the barriers. Regardless, that is another red herring as the OP couldn't have bypassed the barriers at Leeds as they travelled from Baildon on a train that didn't call at Leeds.

something to consider here is whether or not there were others trains and passengers arriving at the barrier line at the same time off trains that could have passed through from Leeds thus leading to the questions and details being taken.

As has been said, asking for a ticket from Leeds right away would cause doubt as the normal thing to do would be to explain what was actually required and where they had come from first.

If everything the OP says is above board then I too agree that no further action should be taken.

 

[bradders1983]

something to consider here is whether or not there were others trains and passengers arriving at the barrier line at the same time off trains that could have passed through from Leeds thus leading to the questions and details being taken.

As has been said, asking for a ticket from Leeds right away would cause doubt as the normal thing to do would be to explain what was actually required and where they had come from first.

If everything the OP says is above board then I too agree that no further action should be taken.

The train the OP was on terminated at Bradford at 1222. The trains from Leeds terminating either side of it were at 1201 and 1231

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BDQ/2015/11/27/1200-1300?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

So no.

I suppose its always possible that there were one or two people from Leeds who may have changed at Shipley (off the Skipton bound train that got into Shipley at 1208) onto the Ilkley-Bradford train the OP was on, but doubtful.

 

[Starmill]

I can see why this looked suspicious, but it is indeed the appropriate ticket for the journeys being made. I can however see this being a difficult fight.

I agree and I wonder why it might be so difficult for someone who's done nothing wrong to prove their innocence? I wonder if it's because Northern are out to get people.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Don't forget that we have only heard one side of the story - there could be all sorts of reasons why the member of staff became suspicious - and if he did he followed the correct course oif action.

I wouldn't put too much store by their powers of deduction.

 

[455driver]

Agreed I think it would be best to probably move back to that part of the dispute rather than getting bogged down with why the guard didn't come through the train.

Or why the OP felt the need to immediately leg it 2 carriages rather than wait for a ticket!

 

[scotsman]

What sort of evidence could OP present to demonstrate that they boarded at Basildon? Is it solely CCTV?

 

[najaB]

Or why the OP felt the need to immediately leg it 2 carriages rather than wait for a ticket!

The OP has given an explanation - you may or may not believe it - but they have said why they did what they did.

 

[ainsworth74]

What sort of evidence could OP present to demonstrate that they boarded at Basildon? Is it solely CCTV?

Well they'll certainly struggle to prove they boarded at Basildon seeing as they boarded at Baildon several hundred miles away

Plus I believe the TOC would need to prove that the OP boarded at Leeds not for the OP to prove that they didn't!

 

[najaB]

Plus I believe the TOC would need to prove that the OP boarded at Leeds not for the OP to prove that they didn't!

I agree with that assessment. I suppose though the OP only has to state what train they alighted from which would suffice to show that they didn't come from Leeds.

 

[zanderson7]

ive tried to get cctv for the 12:11 forster sq train at baildon but not succeeded so far. I will contact northern again tomorrow. From the forum, I gather Northern in particular seem to take a harsher approach? So with them are you guilty till proven innocent (which is what i think im accused of) or actually inocent till proven guilty? Thank you for all your help so far guys i appreciate it

 

[Clip]

The train the OP was on terminated at Bradford at 1222. The trains from Leeds terminating either side of it were at 1201 and 1231

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BDQ/2015/11/27/1200-1300?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

So no.

I suppose its always possible that there were one or two people from Leeds who may have changed at Shipley (off the Skipton bound train that got into Shipley at 1208) onto the Ilkley-Bradford train the OP was on, but doubtful.

Cheers for that.

 

[yorkie]

... I gather Northern in particular seem to take a harsher approach? So with them are you guilty till proven innocent (which is what i think im accused of) or actually inocent till proven guilty?...

Let's not get into that debate in this thread. I will refer you to one of the existing threads shortly (I will do a search and edit this post... or do a search yourself and you may find it before I get round to it); there is certainly plenty of reading material.

 

[zanderson7]

Hey guys hope everyone's well.

Just to remind you of me, I'm the guy who has an issue with a member of the STM staff at Bradford Forster Square station when I innocently asked for a wrong ticket though was suspected of fare evasion (look through the thread for more info!).

I was just wondering, this happened nearly 7 weeks ago (late Nov) and I still have no response from Northern. When the woman from STM took my details down she said it normally takes 2/3weeks to process and send though in my case maybe 4 as it was near christmas. I have spoken to a few conductors who have said that if i've received nothing by now then Northern decided it was too trivial or it wasn't taken further etc whilst some said that it's like a hidden warning should anything happen as they now have my info. Some said that maybe it's the because of the new year etc but 6 and a half weeks sounds strange (though knowing my luck it'll be typical for a letter to be sent tomorrow lol ). Problem is I'm still living in fear and paranoia madly searching through the letter box everyday but I just can't live like this. Any idea how long it takes to send the letter?

Sorry for the rambling post! Thanks!

 

[najaB]

Problem is I'm still living in fear and paranoia madly searching through the letter box everyday but I just can't live like this. Any idea how long it takes to send the letter?

If Northern want to take it to court, they have up to six months to file the case. So it could go on a lot longer. Realistically, I'd expect you to hear something in the next week or so.

 

[zanderson7]

But they send an incident report first though right - and it's been a while :/ i really hope it's not taken further it was a stupid incident and i'm innocent

 

[221129]

But they send an incident report first though right - and it's been a while :/ i really hope it's not taken further it was a stupid incident and i'm innocent

They don't have to, although it is very likely they will.

 

[30907]

I think the consensus on here was that you had a valid ticket, in which case, however long they take to decide, you do not need to worry (I know that's easy to say). And if Northern take any action, there are people here who will advise.

 

[najaB]

There's no harm in your writing to Northern, stating again what happened and ending the letter with something along the lines of "I trust that having had a chance to review the case, you have found that no ticketing offence has occurred and that no further action will be taken."