Storm Goretti disruption - 8/9 January 2026

[Horizon22]

I personally feel that is partly down to how risk averse we have become, people no longer feel they need to take responsibility for their own safety or actions because the H&S overlords are looking out for them.

There's lots of studies that prove - not just in a railway context - that people generally underestimate the chance of bad things happening to them.

Obviously I do not know what alternatives, if any, were discussed. The railway chooses not to communicate that. Their communication is limited to “we’re closed on Friday, your problem not ours.”

Nor would they discuss various options that weren't taken forward as it would be irrelevant for relevant passenger information and would have the impact of confusing the message. I don't necessarily like the fact that alternatives - besides travelling on a different date - are pretty much non-existent or people have to try and work out what their rights are (such as having alternative transport provided or accomodation in extremis), but I do appreciate that trying to arrange all of that at short-notice during extreme weather is extremely challenging for those whose responsibility it is (staff normally trying to manage the disruption already)

How should it come across? Perhaps they could explain why they make a decision like this 48 hours in advance based on nothing more than a well-informed hypothesis. Why can’t they wait and see what actually happens tonight first?

Because it gives the opportunity for everyone to plan in advance. To wait until later is often too late and often over-promising on what can realistically be delivered. I don't really think it is fair to call professional weather forecasting and modelling a "well-informed hypothesis". Maybe 40 years ago, but not now.

I can appreciate why they closed early this evening and made that decision early. I cannot appreciate why they are closed tomorrow all day based on nothing more than a forecast which may or may not happen.

I don't really understand how you can't understand the parallels between the two decisions. The rationale is generally the same - it's about making decisions early. Now I am not saying that these decisions will be correct 100% of the time, but at least there is advertised certainty about what will be open rather than having a go and then running into disruption and having to amend services at short-notice, which generally has a more disruptive impact.

If the snow doesn’t fall as expected tonight then we’re going to be in the position tomorrow that schools will be open and employers will be open but the railway will be shut. Sorry, too late to change our mind now, no trains. We’ve seen it happen so many times before where the weather isn’t as bad as forecast, or doesn’t land where they thought it would, but the railway still doesn’t operate anything.

On the contrary, we have also had very many of these threads on the forums where the railway made exactly the right call on the information given and to instead do as many forum users have time and time again suggested would have stranded thousands of passengers on multiple trains on various routes. Even running trains with best endeavours within severe disruption can spiral because of all the connected crew and stock issues that it causes and can cascade into the next day's operations. These things are all interconnected.

Every couple of months we get these threads, and it is pretty much always 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'. It is frankly a dereliction of duty for Network Rail and TOCs to not take such forecasts seriously, understanding the constraints in the infrastructure and resourcing that is available. You can say that there needs to be better response resourcing, control staffing or better climate resilience and I doubt many would disagree, but that doesn't help what is happening right now, today or tomorrow where the real world requirements have to be taken into consideration and there isn't going to be a massive enhancement budget coming any time soon from the DfT.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't really understand how you can't understand the parallels between the two decisions.

The decision tonight made sense, it gave people a clear cut off for when they need to be home, with the lines closing after the end of the evening peak. Trying to run into the late evening with weather that may be deteriorating is not a good idea.

Tomorrow is a new day. Nobody will be stranded if at 6am or 7am they look out of the window and there’s three feet of snow in the Hope Valley. Everyone will be at home or in a hotel. But if there isn’t much snow then they can get the trains moving. The Amber warning ends by 8am, so it’s not like there’s a risk of things deteriorating later.

If there isn’t much snow they’re still not going to run anything tomorrow.

 

[tumbledown]

where the real world requirements have to be taken into consideration and there isn't going to be a massive enhancement budget coming any time soon from the DfT.

Indeed the real world pressure comes from (some frankly shameful) court decisions telling The Railway to e.g have severe weather protocols in place and take precautionary action. Those same courts are not telling government to raise taxes to provide billions of pounds to improve climate resilience.

 

[D1511]

The decisions are made using the best advice available from weather forecasters, knowledge of available resources, discussions with other authorities (including BTP, emergency services and relevant local authorities), and experience gained from previous incidents, including recommendations made from resulting investigations.

'Knowledge of available resources'.
If you and your colleagues had knowledge of more resources today, you might have been able to make different decisions. Had you been working in the Netherlands, I'm sure you would have had just as busy a day today, but the plans you would have been putting into place would have been very different ones to the plans you were actually making.
Its not about the individuals having to make these decisions, it's the environment and culture in the rail industry that have evolved, for a variety of reasons, that seems to have made it harder to try to keep lines open and services running, that I have a problem with.
However, having said that, if you cancel my Avanti service north of Preston for what was subsequently seen to be no reason whatsoever, then I might take you up on your offer of a discussion about it!
Seriously though, as someone else has said upthread, it'd be fascinating to see control in action dealing with a big weather event like this. I've been in a stadium police control room at big football matches in London and done a fair bit of LA emergency and disaster planning there as well, but it would be really interesting to see railway emergency planning in action.

 

[JamesT]

The decision tonight made sense, it gave people a clear cut off for when they need to be home, with the lines closing after the end of the evening peak. Trying to run into the late evening with weather that may be deteriorating is not a good idea.

Tomorrow is a new day. Nobody will be stranded if at 6am or 7am they look out of the window and there’s three feet of snow in the Hope Valley. Everyone will be at home or in a hotel. But if there isn’t much snow then they can get the trains moving. The Amber warning ends by 8am, so it’s not like there’s a risk of things deteriorating later.

If there isn’t much snow they’re still not going to run anything tomorrow.

The Met Office weather warning page currently has the amber lasting until 9am tomorrow, at which point it turns into a wider yellow warning until midday.

 

[Omnishambles]

When both old and new were in service didn't they send old units out empty as "icebreakers", just accepting that they'd need to repair them later and that this would allow newer units to run without risk of damage. Unfortunately they don't have spare slammers hanging around the depot any more.

Said before - I used to arrange 6 car 313 units as ice breakers on the Watford DC several winters overnight , as well as nothing less than an 8 car 321 on the main line to a planned emergency timetable of 4 tph. Ditto empty stock on the North London and the tough old 117's on the Gospel Oak ran , with a fitter to hand (usually on board one)

Train doors de-iced , everything left under cover at Euston etc as far as possible. Spare train crew at key depots. Plus on call managers. Punctuality was not great , but all routes served.

Staff walking routes gritted - also (very important) tea and where possible - bacon sandwiches for the workers.

Remember them days well running de-icers up and down the DC (if you could get anyone out of the nice warm mess room ).…and the emergency 4tph which memory recalls was actually issued one year as a ’Northampton Line’ contingency appendix to the WTT or some such thing. 117s not so good, atrociously unreliable when we got them off the WR

 

[Horizon22]

Seriously though, as someone else has said upthread, it'd be fascinating to see control in action dealing with a big weather event like this. I've been in a stadium police control room at big football matches in London and done a fair bit of LA emergency and disaster planning there as well, but it would be really interesting to see railway emergency planning in action.

Often it is Network Rail saying - "X line will need to be closed from 1800" with (hopefully!) reasonable notice and TOC controllers desperately working out how they're going to balance the units, crew and a service around it!

 

[bramling]

Often it is Network Rail saying - "X line will need to be closed from 1800" with (hopefully!) reasonable notice and TOC controllers desperately working out how they're going to balance the units, crew and a service around it!

This possibly gives a hint as to where some of the problem lies. Compared to a generation ago the industry has access to a lot more technology than was once the case, yet the experience of the end user during disruption I’d say has got somewhat worse, which is the opposite of what one would expect. My own feeling on this is the industry has a lot of staff who add little value (eg 10 staff huddled round a gateline), and not enough of those who do (eg controllers). So there isn’t really the combined resource to handle large-scale disruption.

 

[Omnishambles]

Tree down on the Cross City south, just for a change.

Death, taxes, fallen trees on the Cross City.

….and as is the norm and given the state of the XCity North I would expect snow laden branches touching OLE, thick branches entangled in readiness for start of service in the morning.

 

[Liam L]

Tree down on the Cross City south, just for a change.

Death, taxes, fallen trees on the Cross City.

It wouldn't be a storm without a tree down on some part of the cross city!

 

[tumbledown]

Disruption to West Midlands Bus on Demand
Due to an amber weather warning, West Midlands Bus on Demand will be unavailable from 9pm on Thursday 8 January.

• services are expected to restart at the start of service on Saturday 10 January.

 

[driverd]

This possibly gives a hint as to where some of the problem lies. Compared to a generation ago the industry has access to a lot more technology than was once the case, yet the experience of the end user during disruption I’d say has got somewhat worse, which is the opposite of what one would expect. My own feeling on this is the industry has a lot of staff who add little value (eg 10 staff huddled round a gateline), and not enough of those who do (eg controllers). So there isn’t really the combined resource to handle large-scale disruption.

This is a fair comment - certainly something I have noticed is a move away from customer service and more towards revenue enforcement, where training is sometimes quite limited.

Communication during disruption has long been a difficulty in the industry. Many station staff don't have much of a pre-determined role to play during disruption, traincrew equally are often left out of the picture until told which train to work. In many cases information dissemination could be much better, coupled with better training and a clear set of instructions for who does what and how during disruption. Even simple things such as pre-planned actions along the lines of opening the gateline and ensuring all staff have access to live updates (as many guards have, but not so many gateline staff) would be a positive step in my eyes.

 

[Horizon22]

My own feeling on this is the industry has a lot of staff who add little value (eg 10 staff huddled round a gateline), and not enough of those who do (eg controllers). So there isn’t really the combined resource to handle large-scale disruption.

I can somewhat understand that but at the same time a load of extra controllers - who cost significantly more to employ that a gateline employee - would maybe only be utilised effectively perhaps 5% of the time. And rarely can you get extra resource in at the drop of a hat who will actually know what they are doing - and would otherwise actually be a hinderance - unless maybe they are now in management roles and are ex-controllers.

That being said, many TOCs are now hiring more 'information controller' type roles, appreciating that this has been an area that has struggled and has increasing demands and expectations.

 

[Omnishambles]

100%

200%

 

[BayPaul]

I have watched this thread unfold with interest, popcorn, and then utter disbelief.



As one of the few people commenting here who have been in the position of having to take decisions such as those made in the last 48 hours, and also having been party to the decisions made in the last 48 hours, I wholeheartedly agree. There seems to be a number of armchair controllers out there who perhaps don’t understand the realities of operating the railway.


For the avoidance of doubt no-one that is responsible for these decisons is “throwing in the towel”. The decisions are made using the best advice available from weather forecasters, knowledge of available resources, discussions with other authorities (including BTP, emergency services and relevant local authorities), and experience gained from previous incidents, including recommendations made from resulting investigations.

A decison to close any part of the network in advance of severe weather is not taken lightly. However, when it is taken, it is done so to provide passengers advance notice of no service, rather than only advising them after an incident when many will be mid journey.



I was not going to single out silly comments, but this one defies belief. Trains are running on most of the GB network as normal. I’ve not long got off one myself (it was on time). Trains have been withdrawn on a relatively small proportion of the network, where the risk to passengers and staff is greatest. To a) suggest that the railways “aren’t trying to run” and b) compare a countrywide network to one airport are both just nonsense.

Whilst on the subject of NS, the weather data supplied to the GB railway also (by chance) includes detailed forecasts for much of France, Belgium and the Netherlands. The snow NS are expecting in the next 36 hours is nothing like as severe as what we are expecting to see in parts of the midlands and pennines in the next 12 hours. And with the Netherlands being, generally, somewhat more generously provided with transport infrastructure than, say, the Peak district or mid-Wales, it is rather easier to attend to any incidents that do happen.

None of this is to claim that the GB rail network is as good as it can be in such circumstances. There is always room for improvement. But to suggest that we in the railway are not trying, or not caring about passengers is frankly offensive. And I’d quite like some of you to come and say it to me in person in control one day.

From someone in a different industry with similar challenges, thankyou to you and all those making these decisions. It isn't easy, but so far, listening to a storm raging outside my window at almost exactly the same strength as the very impressive scientists at the Met Office forecast it, it seems like some very good decisions have been made. Some like closing the Hope Valley and Cornwall are immediately obvious to any lay person. Others less so, but most people should appreciate both that those professionals making the decisions have knowledge that we lack, and that it isn't practical or appropriate to share all of this detail.

It's also good to see a reasonable amount of advance notice has been given, including giving a practical amount of recovery time tomorrow morning. Fingers crossed that picking up the pieces tomorrow won't be too painful.

Thanks once again.

 

[Omnishambles]

If theres an offer for a visit to control packaged in there, I'd happily take you up on that (though, maybe chose my words carefully)!

I’d also add if you are ever in the position to get a visit be lucky enough to be there on a day like today just to stand back and take it all in as the absolute whirlwind that is severe disruption unfolds in front of you. I’ve found it’s like the 7 circles of Hell before now

 

[diffident]

I'm assuming the Lickey Incline is blocked, as there's three voyagers sat at Bromsgrove?

 

[Lewisham2221]

Meanwhile, on a line that wasn't pre-closed, the "just a bit chilly, innit" weather has resulted in:

• Points failures
• Level crossing failures
• Power failures
• Trees down
• NR staff struggling to reach locations and resolve issues

 

[Bletchleyite]

I live in Bromsgrove, and that station is nowhere near the town... infact shockingly so. I'd not want to end up stranded there that's for sure.

You'd have an Uber there in minutes. It's Birmingham, not some rural idyll.

 

[styles]

Meanwhile, on a line that wasn't pre-closed, the "just a bit chilly, innit" weather has resulted in:

Thanks, that made me chuckle.

• Points failures
• Level crossing failures
• Power failures
• Trees down
• NR staff struggling to reach locations and resolve issues

Obviously in reality I feel for the staff dealing with this, especially Network Rail fixing the infra, and TOC customer service agents undoubtedly dealing with upset customers.

 

[trundlewagon]

You'd have an Uber there in minutes. It's Birmingham, not some rural idyll.

It might be slightly better now the traffic has all but vanished - at 1am - but the roads quickly became a disaster zone when the snow started coming down thick and fast at 6pm.

Looking at local social media posts, I doubt you'd have been getting anywhere quickly other than by foot until about an hour ago...

 

[diffident]

You'd have an Uber there in minutes. It's Birmingham, not some rural idyll.

Getting an Uber or a local taxi for me would be fine and easily done...

But - three Voyagers' full of passengers, with inpassable roads? Not so much fun.

Oh, and Bromsgrove is not Birmingham, it's a small town in Worcestershire, and absolutely is rural once you're out of the single-street high street here!

 

[CapabilityB]

That’s not how it comes across, though.

I cannot see a justifiable reason for deciding 48 hours in advance to close everything on Friday. That decision could have been made later tonight or even first thing tomorrow, once the reality of the situation was known. Maybe it will turn out that Friday has huge snowdrifts and that NR were right. Maybe it won’t.

The conclusion I take from all of this is that it is operationally more convenient for the railway to make these decisions 48 hours in advance based on hypotheses, so that is what the railway does. And if the snow doesn’t arrive well, too late, we can’t change our mind now.

You phrase it as being "convenient", but it's actually the most sensible timeframe which doesn't lead to stranded customers.

 

[KNN]

It might be slightly better now the traffic has all but vanished - at 1am - but the roads quickly became a disaster zone when the snow started coming down thick and fast at 6pm.

Looking at local social media posts, I doubt you'd have been getting anywhere quickly other than by foot until about an hour ago...

Exactly. Even in perfect conditions it's 45 minutes to get from where most ubers are to the far side of Bromsgrove. I can't see many drivers biting your hand off for an £8 fare when you have to drive at 20mph.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jan 2026 ==

Oh, and Bromsgrove is not Birmingham, it's a small town in Worcestershire, and absolutely is rural once you're out of the single-street high street here!

Also yes to this, it's definitely not Birmingham in any sense other than the rail network. You can't even get a bus across the border very easily.

 

[GusB]

I personally feel that is partly down to how risk averse we have become, people no longer feel they need to take responsibility for their own safety or actions because the H&S overlords are looking out for them.

It's entirely because some people cannot take responsibility for their own safety that the "H&S Overlords" make such decisions.

 

[Krokodil]

If thats aimed in any way at my earlier comments regarding Birmingham Airport, I'd just like to clarify that I had specifically chosen an airport that was affected by the weather warning and was highlighting the different approach; namely no pre-planned cancellations and to continue operations until such a point as they could not.

As it happens, there have been some flight diversions this evening, with an Air India flight ending up at Heathrow and a TUI to Manchester, amongst others.

I don't think anyone is claiming that airports don't stop operations when it is unsafe to do so - aircraft are far more vulnerable to severe weather - it's simply to highlight different ways of dealing with weather and perhaps learning points from an industry more vulnerable to weather extremes.

But for the passengers, having a flight diverted is a mere inconvenience. Probably no more inconvenient than a cancelation would be.

In order for a plane to reach Manchester Airport vice Birmingham, it simply flies there. No infrastructure to keep clear in the middle. A plane can even get to Birmingham Tower and be told to divert and this can just happen. Trains can't just fly somewhere else if the original destination is closed, the infrastructure to do so must be clear, the crew must sign the route and the rolling stock must be gauge cleared. Trains are also not up in the air until the last possible moment, there is an actual risk of getting stuck in the back end of beyond.

A number of my colleagues are spending this night in a hotel, having been stranded away from home.

 

[tumbledown]

It's entirely because some people cannot take responsibility for their own safety that the "H&S Overlords" make such decisions.

Every adult who has not been Sectioned can take responsibility for their own safety.

 

[dvboy]

1V71 1704 Edinburgh to Bristol TM is currently 287 mins late on the approach to Cheltenham, appears to be running in service.

Realtime Trains | 1V71 1704 Edinburgh to Bristol Temple Meads | 08/01/2026

Real-time train running information for 1V71 1704 departure from Edinburgh to Bristol Temple Meads on 08/01/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Looks like the trains that were stuck outside Wolverhampton all got in eventually with delays of around an hour (some of them having gone via Stafford).

 

[GusB]

Every adult who has not been Sectioned can take responsibility for their own safety.

Allow me to re-phrase:

It's entirely because some people will not take responsibility for their own safety that the "H&S Overlords" make such decisions.

 

[SteveElbows]

1V71 1704 Edinburgh to Bristol TM is currently 287 mins late on the approach to Cheltenham, appears to be running in service.

Realtime Trains | 1V71 1704 Edinburgh to Bristol Temple Meads | 08/01/2026

Real-time train running information for 1V71 1704 departure from Edinburgh to Bristol Temple Meads on 08/01/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Looks like the trains that were stuck outside Wolverhampton all got in eventually with delays of around an hour (some of them having gone via Stafford).

The 1M83 18:27 Plymouth to Birmingham New Street endured a similar nightmare in the other direction, and eventually arrived at New Street at 04:18, 378 minutes late.

Realtime Trains | 1M83 1827 Plymouth to Birmingham New Street | 08/01/2026

Real-time train running information for 1M83 1827 departure from Plymouth to Birmingham New Street on 08/01/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk