Storm Doris Thursday 23rd - Major disruption on some routes

[eastdyke]

Can you remember a previous occasion a weather event paralysed all three major rail routes from London to the North at the same time?

Yes.

Jan 1976 - ~ 24 dead. Storm at weekend so minimal impact on short/long distance commuting.
Oct 1987 - ~ 22 dead. Storm hit on a Friday night so no-one went anywhere on the Saturday.
Jan 1990 - ~ 100 dead. Storm much more severe than Doris.
Oct 2013 - ~ 5 dead. Storm hit early hours Monday so no-one went anywhere early on Monday.

I agree that Doris tracked across the middle of the country and during the day meaning that the impact on the rail traveling population was high. With the benefit of internet/smartphone/social media (and indeed this forum) the impact is more easily disseminated than for the 1976/87 storms which all started when the intending traveler was by and large at home. The 1990 storm was a daytime event, hence the very high number of dead.

For the earlier dated storms there would have been less issue with OHLE entanglements.

The Storm Doris was not a 'once in decades' event.

 

[extendedpaul]

I spent most of Storm Doris Thursday travelling. Here's the day from my perspective. I go to the theatre regularly and travel all over the country to see new musicals first. Journey schedule was Rainham Kent to St Pancras, then 11.00 Euston to Manchester. Booked to see a matinee at 14.30, then on to Sheffield for another show and overnight stay. All on advance tickets.

Arrived Euston 10.25. 10.20 to Manchester already departed. 11.00 cancelled. Boarded 10.40. Left on time. Almost full but nobody standing. Within minutes train manager announced we would be up to 2 hours late reaching Manchester due to speed restriction. Ticket check followed.He was polite but a bit abrupt when people were asking questions. Understandable perhaps but unnecessary.

Stopped many times, often quite sharply. No announcements or explanations. Arrived Rugby about two hours down. The 10.30 from Euston to Glasgow was on an adjacent platform. We left first after about 15 minutes. Shortly afterwards a brief announcement that the sudden stops were due to debris on the line and overhead wires and we were likely to be at least 3 hours late at Manchester. I was resigned to missing the afternoon show. Free coffee, tea and water offered from the buffet. Approaching Crewe about 14.45 the train manager announced we would be terminating there and passengers advised to take local services to Manchester.We were also told that anyone who wished to travel back to London could do so. Heavy rain and lots of confusion as everybody alighted as it transpired there were no trains running to Manchester but rail replacement coaches were outside the station. My coach left just after 15.00 and was in gridlock on the M6 for almost two hours. Arrived Stockport (35 miles) at 17.45, five hours late. Coach driver then announced he had run out of driving hours and advised passengers to catch a train to Manchester if possible or wait for another coach.. I caught the delayed 16.54 to Sheffield at 18.20 which was not shown on the departure board and arrived platform 1 unannounced and almost empty. Most intending passengers would have been on platform 0 awaiting the 17.54 and left behind. I made the evening show two minutes before curtain up !

My journeys weren't essential of course but as everything was booked and paid for I took my chances. Even if the train manager had no information to impart an occasional apology would have been appreciated. He only walked through the one time to check tickets. I heard people complain that they would have left the train at Rugby and aborted their journeys there if the announcement about 3 hours delay had been made here and the doors opened.

Passengers were understanding but aggrieved about the limited and inaccurate information. I don't regret my decision to travel and I learnt so much about the used car business from the man sitting next to me.

 

[driver9000]

Yesterday was a once in decades event. Thankfully no-one was killed as a result, at least as far as the railway is concerned, so the industry must learn the lessons as regards customer service, and move on.

A woman in Wolverhampton died in the storm.

 

[D1009]

Yes.

Jan 1976 - ~ 24 dead. Storm at weekend so minimal impact on short/long distance commuting.
Oct 1987 - ~ 22 dead. Storm hit on a Friday night so no-one went anywhere on the Saturday.
Jan 1990 - ~ 100 dead. Storm much more severe than Doris.
Oct 2013 - ~ 5 dead. Storm hit early hours Monday so no-one went anywhere early on Monday.

I agree that Doris tracked across the middle of the country and during the day meaning that the impact on the rail traveling population was high. With the benefit of internet/smartphone/social media (and indeed this forum) the impact is more easily disseminated than for the 1976/87 storms which all started when the intending traveler was by and large at home. The 1990 storm was a daytime event, hence the very high number of dead.

For the earlier dated storms there would have been less issue with OHLE entanglements.

The Storm Doris was not a 'once in decades' event.

In terms of the effect on the railway, I think it was a once in decades event. I was not attempting to discuss the meteorological issue. It is a railway forum, isn't it?

 

[Mag_seven]

A woman in Wolverhampton died in the storm.

To be fair the poster did state "Thankfully no-one was killed as a result, at least as far as the railway is concerned"

I took that to mean no-one was killed on the railway that day as a result of Doris.

 

[eastdyke]

In terms of the effect on the railway, I think it was a once in decades event. I was not attempting to discuss the meteorological issue. It is a railway forum, isn't it?

People have short memories. See these Guardian pieces from Oct. 2013:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/28/uk-storm-memories-1987-network-rail-response

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/28/britain-storm-rail-disruption

You will note that 'a once in 25 years contingency' was opined there, together with 'not a single train was running into the capital during the morning rush hour'! If commuters could not get into the capital then they had no need of a journey home.

It takes the accuracy (or not) of weather forecasts, the timing of the weather event taken with the combined responses of The Industry and the traveling public to determine the outcome.

I still say that Storm Doris was not 'a once in decades event' (even in its effect on the railway). We may need to agree to differ.

 

[Alfie1014]

I agree Doris wasn't a once in decades event that said happening during the daytime over a longish period of time with inland windspeed in southern England of 65-70mph is not a regular event. In my opinion the closest I've experienced was Jan 1990, when there was major disruption from late morning onwards and many routes weren't able to offer a service to get commuters home that evening. That day I spent many hours at St Albans with most of the then Thameslink management team marshalling passengers on to buses for the north, then made my way home to Essex on the tube and bus as the LTS route was completly blocked by numerous trees and other debris blocking the lines.

As ever getting information out to passengers is incredibly difficult when circumstances were changing so rapidly, as others have said on Thursday as soon as one incident was cleared up one or more others occurred.

I hope therefore there is a reasoned network-wide post mortem on how the whole industry could have better coordinated and manage better when something similar next happens!

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes.

Jan 1976 - ~ 24 dead. Storm at weekend so minimal impact on short/long distance commuting.
Oct 1987 - ~ 22 dead. Storm hit on a Friday night so no-one went anywhere on the Saturday.
Jan 1990 - ~ 100 dead. Storm much more severe than Doris.
Oct 2013 - ~ 5 dead. Storm hit early hours Monday so no-one went anywhere early on Monday.

Minor points, but The Oct 87 storm was overnight Thursday / Friday; I remember being off school the day after.

We also had the whole network shut down on a Sunday in 2002 due to a storm.

The point being that this is 'couple of times per decade' storm event. That's what I heard the Met Office say.

 

[TheEdge]

I hope therefore there is a reasoned network-wide post mortem on how the whole industry could have better coordinated and manage better when something similar next happens!

Not sure what they can do. In Anglia MOMs, p'way and OHL teams were pretty much going from incident to incident as they happened, as soon as they cleared one tree another three had fallen. Same with OHL, wires came down at Mellis, OHL attended, before they'd even finished there they were dispatched to go from there right on to a de-wirement at Lakenham.

In certain situations I do think someone should have the balls to just say "STOP", get trains that are on the move to a suitable staffed station and stop the job until the problems are properly sorted.

 

[eastdyke]

Minor points, but The Oct 87 storm was overnight Thursday / Friday; I remember being off school the day after.

We also had the whole network shut down on a Sunday in 2002 due to a storm.

The point being that this is 'couple of times per decade' storm event. That's what I heard the Met Office say.

Whoops Thanks.

My abiding memory is looking out of the upstairs window in the morning and seeing the kids tubular steel climbing frame on its side!

 

[londonmidland]

Another potential storm next Wednesday. Early days of course regarding details about this but just something to keep an eye out for.

 

[PHILIPE]

Just to update ATW position, which even though severely affected by line closures on Thursday, failed to generate any discussion, HOWL trains resumed today and the Blaenau Ffestiniog line re-opened earlier as far as North Llanrwst with bustitution forward. This will remain as such on Monday. (No Sunday service during Winter). There are still large trees and debris blocking the line.

 

[edwin_m]

Over the past couple of years we've have a number of occasions where large parts of the railway were shut down, with advance warning given so that most people would have been aware this was happening and able to make alternative arrangements where possible.

A few months ago this happened again and there was much debate on here about whether it was actually necessary, as the storm turned out (in some places at least) to be less bad than expected.

Doris seems to have been the opposite. TOCs were warning of speed restrictions and some other disruptions but not suspension of service, and suggesting things would be back to normal by the evening. Things turned out rather differently and due to the storm being at its worst during the day and into the evening peak, a lot of people who expected to avoid the worst of it were actually caught up.

I guess it just shows that despite advances in weather forecasting, it's still not possible to be right all of the time.

 

[PHILIPE]

At least, XC Voyagers managed to run via Dawlish on Thursday as wind completely other direction.

 

[trainophile]

I abandoned Thursday's journey and returned to Southport, was lucky to even be able to do that from Piccadilly it seems. Knew I couldn't face attempting it on Friday even though tickets were being accepted, as I was too exhausted from the stress. Luckily I managed to find a lowest tier Advance ticket at less than two days notice, to come back via Chester today, which turned out to be a 3-coach 178 with very few people on board. All the other ATWs I saw while waiting at Chester were 2-coach, so I was not optimistic, but I got lucky this time. Had a whole table to myself all the way to Hereford .

I wondered what the policy would be when trains are cancelled and tickets accepted the following day, if the following day is unsuitable for some reason. What's the chances of them allowing ticket acceptance to go into a second day?

A bit worried now about the prospects for Wednesday (which I hadn't heard about), as I should be arriving in Fort William off the sleeper in the morning, and returning overnight Thursday, so hoping there's no major disruption. Any weather updates gratefully appreciated.

 

[LAX54]

Over the past couple of years we've have a number of occasions where large parts of the railway were shut down, with advance warning given so that most people would have been aware this was happening and able to make alternative arrangements where possible.

A few months ago this happened again and there was much debate on here about whether it was actually necessary, as the storm turned out (in some places at least) to be less bad than expected.

Doris seems to have been the opposite. TOCs were warning of speed restrictions and some other disruptions but not suspension of service, and suggesting things would be back to normal by the evening. Things turned out rather differently and due to the storm being at its worst during the day and into the evening peak, a lot of people who expected to avoid the worst of it were actually caught up.

I guess it just shows that despite advances in weather forecasting, it's still not possible to be right all of the time.

Forecasting the weather 'exactly' will always be guess work to a certain event, they can forecast where the storm / rain / wind / sun / snow may go, based on computer predictions and other calculations, but as was seen at the last storm surge in East Anglia a few weeks ago, Mother Nature can change her mind at the very last minute, and make all the calculations null and void.
No amount of pre-planning by Highways / Airports / Railways can cater for all events, plan for the worst, storm passes by somewhere else, and by the same token vice versa ! Could argue NR / TOCs caught between rock and a hard place.

 

[miami]

Just to update ATW position, which even though severely affected by line closures on Thursday, failed to generate any discussion, HOWL trains resumed today and the Blaenau Ffestiniog line re-opened earlier as far as North Llanrwst with bustitution forward. This will remain as such on Monday. (No Sunday service during Winter). There are still large trees and debris blocking the line.

I saw on twitter than Crewe-Shrewsbury was closed for a time today.

 

[miami]

Drove to Warwick parkway instead, got a lovely children train that's running a little late, LM tickets clearly accepted, and delay repay should refund them anyway.

However the question is on Saturday, will the return ticket be accepted to Warwick parkway?

Yes would be the answer to that - both brilliant TOCs (as is ATW in my neck of the woods), and puts VTWC to shame.

 

[PHILIPE]

I saw on twitter than Crewe-Shrewsbury was closed for a time today.

Nothing to do with Storm Doris at all. Suspect person hit by train as reported as Emergency services dealing with incident.

 

[Busaholic]

At least, XC Voyagers managed to run via Dawlish on Thursday as wind completely other direction.

Mount's Bay too like the proverbial millpond on Thursday, a rare occurrence in winter.

 

[Mag_seven]

Another potential storm next Wednesday. Early days of course regarding details about this but just something to keep an eye out for.

Never mind Wednesday, there is one on its way tomorrow!

"A small area of very strong winds is likely to move northeastwards over parts of the northwestern half of the UK. The area of strongest winds will arrive over northwest Wales late on Sunday morning and clear the northeast of Scotland on Monday morning.

For many a short period of gusty winds are likely with speeds perhaps reaching 70 mph in exposed locations whilst inland parts are more likely to see isolated gusts of 50-60 mph.

Some disruption to transport is possible. Heavy rain may also prove an additional hazard."


http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/....50&lat=55.50&fcTime=1488067200&regionName=uk

 

[PHILIPE]

Just to update ATW position, which even though severely affected by line closures on Thursday, failed to generate any discussion, HOWL trains resumed today and the Blaenau Ffestiniog line re-opened earlier as far as North Llanrwst with bustitution forward. This will remain as such on Monday. (No Sunday service during Winter). There are still large trees and debris blocking the line.

Blaenau Ffestiniogs now curtailed UFN due embankment damage

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Forecasting will indeed a viessing game but I will never forget Micheal Fish famous blunder back in 1987...

"Dont worry, there is no hurricane coming..."

 

[philthetube]

I abandoned Thursday's journey and returned to Southport, was lucky to even be able to do that from Piccadilly it seems. Knew I couldn't face attempting it on Friday even though tickets were being accepted, as I was too exhausted from the stress. Luckily I managed to find a lowest tier Advance ticket at less than two days notice, to come back via Chester today, which turned out to be a 3-coach 178 with very few people on board. All the other ATWs I saw while waiting at Chester were 2-coach, so I was not optimistic, but I got lucky this time. Had a whole table to myself all the way to Hereford .

I wondered what the policy would be when trains are cancelled and tickets accepted the following day, if the following day is unsuitable for some reason. What's the chances of them allowing ticket acceptance to go into a second day?

A bit worried now about the prospects for Wednesday (which I hadn't heard about), as I should be arriving in Fort William off the sleeper in the morning, and returning overnight Thursday, so hoping there's no major disruption. Any weather updates gratefully appreciated.

I saw a Virgin trains staff member endorsing a ticket for travel two weeks ahead for a passenger trying to make a prison visit and needing time to rearrange it.

 

[D365]

GA would not have been able to do that if we had an 'all electric' railway.

They are ordering numerous bi-mode units. And it might be possible for the electric units to be fitted with batteries for the purpose of self-recovery, as I believe the Class 345s may have.

 

[Mag_seven]

Forecasting will indeed a viessing game but I will never forget Micheal Fish famous blunder back in 1987...

"Dont worry, there is no hurricane coming..."

Which was a correct statement.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Which was a correct statement.

Indeed it was. On three counts:

1) It wasn't a hurricane even though it had an eye; just a storm with hurricane force winds.

2) Fish was responding to a question from someone in the Carribean about that part of the world.

3) Although Fish delivered the forecast, it had actually been drawn up by Bill Giles; Fish had only just come on duty at the time he delivered it.

 

[fowler9]

Forecasting will indeed a viessing game but I will never forget Micheal Fish famous blunder back in 1987...

"Dont worry, there is no hurricane coming..."

I know I have said this before but it is a fun story so why not. The day after the 87 hurricane I went to the Ripple Lane open day. The train from Liverpool to London went via Birmingham and then Northampton and took about 4 hours. After the open day we got the Gatwick Express to Gatwick and back, on the way out it took about 2 hours. The train bac to Liverpool was behind an 81 or an 85 and we arrived about 20 minutes early. Great day out.

 

[PHILIPE]

Blaenau Ffestiniogs now curtailed UFN due embankment damage

Normal service resumption is 1200 03/03. Reason below as taken from ATW Journey Check

QUOTE
[During Storm Doris last week, a very large tree fell onto the track, from an overhang on Foel Felen mountain, above the line. This was on approach to Pont-y-Pant station (from Betws-y-Coed), close to Lledr Hall.
Unfortunately, significant disturbance has been caused to the rock overhang area above the line. This has led to a serious risk of landslip from loosened rock. The line must remain closed until further notice, in order for Network Rail civil engineers and contractors to remove loosened rock, soil and nearby trees.]

 

[LeylandLen]

Apparently 'Storm Ewan ' has been named by the Irish met office ; due over Ireland soon but not expected to affect us this side of the Irish sea.