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The scene at Andover station at 17:51 this evening. With the waiting rooms and toilets locked up for the day, and the temperature just above freezing, intending passengers watch as the 13 minute late 1L60 1525 Exeter St Davids to London Waterloo speeds non stop through the station. RTT informs that the stop at Basingstoke was also omitted, but the Woking stop was retained. The train arrived at London Waterloo 8 minutes late, then had a 22 minute layover before its next working.
Who makes decisions about which station stops are omitted and on what basis? Why not omit the Woking stop, where trains are more frequent and retain the other two stops? Was it really necessary to omit any stops?
An extra dose of misery for anyone who was travelling from Salisbury to Andover! They would either have been held back at Salisbury or missed the announcement and travelled most of the way to London and back. Basingstoke is also an important interchange, for Reading, the Midlands and the North
Woking is a big junction and so probably is serving more people. It also may have had a staff change as mentioned. Or some other reason like needing to be held for a junction anyway.
That can only be answered if we know for sure what would have happened if they hadn't.
Controllers are not infallible and it is very possible that this service could have called at Andover and Basingstoke without any further impact on the timetable. However its also possible that recovering 5 minutes saved delaying a service further up the line and potentially hundreds of minutes of reactionary delay.
Operationally, perhaps the plan was to present the train as punctually as possible to a critical corridor?
On a secondary point, withdrawing the Woking stop might achieve nothing if late presentation resulted in the train being shoehorned in between two other trains with Woking stops, especially if that meant a long stand in rear of Woking waiting for the signals to clear beyond the station.
If the time was 17.51, passengers at Andover only had to wait 15 minutes for the 1806 to Waterloo. If that was running to time - which may have been one of the factors the controllers took into account - the delay would not have been huge. I appreciate that the impact would vary from one passenger to another.
Of course I don't know how clearly and how many times the decision to omit the Andover and Basingstoke stops was announced on the train and on the platform at Salisbury. Provided that it was announced clearly, passengers from west of Salisbury who wanted those stops would have been able to change for a fifteen-minute wait for the next service.
Having said all that, and recognising that in a difficult situation controllers have to make a decision which cannot please everybody, I do feel that when a situation like this is reported here, those who work on the railway leap to the support of the decision that has been made, and put forward reasons that aren't necessarily part of the actual circumstances of the case.
If the time was 17.51, passengers at Andover only had to wait 15 minutes for the 1806 to Waterloo. If that was running to time - which may have been one of the factors the controllers took into account - the delay would not have been huge. I appreciate that the impact would vary from one passenger to another.
Of course I don't know how clearly and how many times the decision to omit the Andover and Basingstoke stops was announced on the train and on the platform at Salisbury. Provided that it was announced clearly, passengers from west of Salisbury who wanted those stops would have been able to change for a fifteen-minute wait for the next service.
Having said all that, and recognising that in a difficult situation controllers have to make a decision which cannot please everybody, I do feel that when a situation like this is reported here, those who work on the railway leap to the support of the decision that has been made, and put forward reasons that aren't necessarily part of the actual circumstances of the case.
More that people who have knowledge explain why the decision has been made, and all the various factors that go into making such decisions. Doesn't mean supporting all decisions. And even then without implicit knowledge of each TOC's crew and fleet diagrams, infrastructure constraints and known pinch points, even informed commentators might only be able to hint on why a decision was made.
As an aside, about 20 people waiting for a train doesn't look like much of a "scene" personally, having observed the impact of disruption on operators for just one delay or cancellation around London and Home Counties!
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Far better that ~20 people wait an extra 15 minutes, than many more people get further delayed, miss connections, the train further misses its path, and the return working gets delayed.
If the next train was an hour, then that would be a very different story.
That alteration is usually done when the up Exeter is expected to be held at Gillingham so there might have been a breakdown in communication between the control room and the signal boxes as RTT does not show an extended dwell at Gillingham.
Calling at Woking rather than Basingstoke is an unusual run fast but there’s a higher chance of hitting line speed through Basingstoke than Woking due to fewer conflicting moves.
As an avid reader of the forum, I may be able to offer an insight into this particular matter.
I was aboard the 1525 from Exeter all the way to London yesterday and can confirm that the train was non-stop from Salisbury.
It slowed outside both Woking and Basingstoke but did not stop. Arrival into Waterloo was at 1912, merely 8 minutes before its return journey to Exeter at 1920.
The reason for the delay was line checking around Honiton by the train we crossed at Pinhoe, and ourselves, due to reports of a fallen tree as a result of the awful weather.
We were 33 minutes late at Gillingham, where the revised stopping pattern was announced with the assurance that the 1747 from Salisbury to London would be held.
I can appreciate the frustration of the opening poster (OP) and others at Andover as we sailed through (almost literally- it was throwing it down still), but I believe the 1747 was released from Salisbury right behind us.
It is not for me to say if the decision taken was the right one, but travelling non stop from Salisbury was a first for me.
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Edit: I just noticed the OP was talking about the service on Thursday, so apologies.
Unlucky for the same train service to be affected 2 days running and in the same manner
Compare with my current experience- there have been delays on the Liverpool -West Kirby line this morning with trains running 7-8 minutes late.
I boarded the 1237 Birkenhead North-West Kirby only to terminate at Bidston so it could run empty non stop to West Kirby.
There are also cancellations on the New Brighton line, Everton are at home and the Liverpool Christmas markets are on.
The galling thing is that I might have been able to catch the previous train but for somebody buying tickets for a family of five, who in the end couldn’t board the next Liverpool train because it was full!
As an avid reader of the forum, I may be able to offer an insight into this particular matter.
I was aboard the 1525 from Exeter all the way to London yesterday and can confirm that the train was non-stop from Salisbury.
It slowed outside both Woking and Basingstoke but did not stop. Arrival into Waterloo was at 1912, merely 8 minutes before its return journey to Exeter at 1920.
The reason for the delay was line checking around Honiton by the train we crossed at Pinhoe, and ourselves, due to reports of a fallen tree as a result of the awful weather.
We were 33 minutes late at Gillingham, where the revised stopping pattern was announced with the assurance that the 1747 from Salisbury to London would be held.
I can appreciate the frustration of the opening poster (OP) and others at Andover as we sailed through (almost literally- it was throwing it down still), but I believe the 1747 was released from Salisbury right behind us.
It is not for me to say if the decision taken was the right one, but travelling non stop from Salisbury was a first for me.
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Edit: I just noticed the OP was talking about the service on Thursday, so apologies.
Unlucky for the same train service to be affected 2 days running and in the same manner
If the time was 17.51, passengers at Andover only had to wait 15 minutes for the 1806 to Waterloo. If that was running to time - which may have been one of the factors the controllers took into account - the delay would not have been huge. I appreciate that the impact would vary from one passenger to another.
It 18:06 was running about 3 minutes late at Andover, and got to Waterloo at 19:19 which is exactly 30 mins later than the scheduled 18:49 arrival of the train that ran fast
Having said all that, and recognising that in a difficult situation controllers have to make a decision which cannot please everybody, I do feel that when a situation like this is reported here, those who work on the railway leap to the support of the decision that has been made, and put forward reasons that aren't necessarily part of the actual circumstances of the case.
I suspect the controllers do not have to suffer a delay of 15-20 minutes for a toilet. There are obvious consequences when decisions like this are taken, but sometimes the inconvenience to passengers (pun intended) is long way down the priorities.
Looks like passengers waiting at Honiton for the 1L60 had to swap platforms too. I do not know why it was 10 minutes late departing its start point in Exeter
Thanks for clarifying as I am not familiar with the area. Cant honestly say which platform we went next to but there was nobody on either side of the island platform that I saw so it could well have been. I take it from the interest that is quite unusual too?
Thanks for clarifying as I am not familiar with the area. Cant honestly say which platform we went next to but there was nobody on either side of the island platform that I saw so it could well have been. I take it from the interest that is quite unusual too?
If you were on the loop, the platform would have been on the right hand side in direction of travel. Had you continued along the Up Main Fast, the same island platform would have been on the left.
https://charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/livetrain/L47572/05/12/25 says MFL, so not the loop, which makes sense if the station stop had been cancelled. Trains aren’t normally permitted to stop at platform 8 so stopping trains need to use the slow loop through platform 7.
Attachments
Service 37366363 (L47572) 1L60 15-25 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo (Main).pdf
https://charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/livetrain/L47572/05/12/25 says MFL, so not the loop, which makes sense if the station stop had been cancelled. Trains aren’t normally permitted to stop at platform 8 so stopping trains need to use the slow loop through platform 7.
Real-time train running information for 1L60 1525 departure from Exeter St Davids to London Waterloo on 04/12/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Don't forget that the railway has operated under contracts between DfT and the TOC since privatisation, those contracts will have delay tolerances and so the railway has been operated to reduce any delays.
Therefore, running fast to get to the terminus of the service to arrive as near as to the scheduled time is the most important aim to reduce any contractual defaults.
Sod the users, the contract is with DfT and not the passengers. Even now that SWR and others are no longer TOCs and are owned by DfT, this will still apply and it will take a long time for that method of working to get out of the system, if it ever will.
Don't forget that the railway has operated under contracts between DfT and the TOC since privatisation, those contracts will have delay tolerances and so the railway has been operated to reduce any delays.
Therefore, running fast to get to the terminus of the service to arrive as near as to the scheduled time is the most important aim to reduce any contractual defaults.
Sod the users, the contract is with DfT and not the passengers. Even now that SWR and others are no longer TOCs and are owned by DfT, this will still apply and it will take a long time for that method of working to get out of the system, if it ever will.
I can assure you the vast majority of controllers are not interested in contractual performance/penalties (other people on a different pay grade deal with that), they are interested in and implement the best train recovery plan they can that moves the most amount of people with the minimal amount of delay.
Controllers have had to wait a lot longer than that for a toilet break during severe disruption. A chamber pot next to the desk would have been useful on occasions....
Therefore, running fast to get to the terminus of the service to arrive as near as to the scheduled time is the most important aim to reduce any contractual defaults.
No, the aim is to minimise delay and disruption to the greatest number of passengers, based on the information and foresight available to Control at the time.
Agree totally re Control I once arrived for duty at 1300 and 3 serious incidents happened almost immediately, someone made me a cup of Coffee and it was about 4 hours before I finished it, no meal break the entire shift and in the end I stayed on to help the night shift and finished at about 0530 the following morning.
I think the law states if u work more than 6 hours u must have a break. If that means phones go un anwsered tough. If u want coverage 24/7 get in a meal relief
I can assure you the vast majority of controllers are not interested in contractual performance/penalties (other people on a different pay grade deal with that), they are interested in and implement the best train recovery plan they can that moves the most amount of people with the minimal amount of delay.
Well why when a Weybridge to Waterloo service that is running 15 minutes late does is run from Feltham non-stop to Waterloo, when it usually has a 27 minute layover at Waterloo before it returns to Weybridge. If called at all the stations, it would still have about 12 minutes layover. That suggest lateness reduction rather than providing a service to the passenger.
I think the law states if u work more than 6 hours u must have a break. If that means phones go un anwsered tough. If u want coverage 24/7 get in a meal relief
There's a bit of a corker on the WCML tonight. 2Y75 was a mere 16 mins late at Northampton, but it's subsequently dropped all further calls and is running fast to New Street from there. Those poor sods heading to Long Buckby / Rugby / Coventry / Birmingham International who now have the joy of waiting for 30 mins on the ever welcoming platforms at Northampton eh! At least stop it at Rugby so passengers have alternatives, no?
Well why when a Weybridge to Waterloo service that is running 15 minutes late does is run from Feltham non-stop to Waterloo, when it usually has a 27 minute layover at Waterloo before it returns to Weybridge. If called at all the stations, it would still have about 12 minutes layover. That suggest lateness reduction rather than providing a service to the passenger.
Just because the train might have a 27 minute turnaround, it doesn’t mean the crew do. Their next working will potentially be taking up a platform at Waterloo waiting for them, as a result transferring delays to other routes and even more passengers.
Well why when a Weybridge to Waterloo service that is running 15 minutes late does is run from Feltham non-stop to Waterloo, when it usually has a 27 minute layover at Waterloo before it returns to Weybridge. If called at all the stations, it would still have about 12 minutes layover. That suggest lateness reduction rather than providing a service to the passenger.
What was the crews next working? That's also to consider? There is more to in that what the set is due to work.
None of us commenting here know the reasons why this choice was made, only the people who made that can, as they had all the facts. Also, sometimes making choices in a split second, where us on here commenting have hours to analysis the what's and whys etc and what they could of done.
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