Stopping slightly short of Stop Car Mark (SCM)

[mt219]

If you (driver) stop slightly short of the SCM at a tight 8 car platform with an 8 car train, can you just pull forward to the mark? Does it need reported?

 

[RailExplorer]

If you (driver) stop slightly short of the SCM at a tight 8 car platform with an 8 car train, can you just pull forward to the mark? Does it need reported?

I believe stop shorts that are corrected before doors released are not reportable incidents at my TOC (DOO service).

 

[mt219]

If you (driver) stop slightly short of the SCM at a tight 8 car platform with an 8 car train, can you just pull forward to the mark? Does it need reported?

SCM = Stop Car Mark

 

[Kite159]

If there was potential for someone to fall out of the rearmost set of doors as it was off the platform then yes it will probably need reporting assuming the driver didn't notices they have stopped short and releases the doors. Similar if a guard fails to notice the train isn't fully accommodated.

 

[mt219]

If there was potential for someone to fall out of the rearmost set of doors as it was off the platform then yes it will probably need reporting assuming the driver didn't notices they have stopped short and releases the doors. Similar if a guard fails to notice the train isn't fully accommodated.

train was fully on platform and doors not released. Only had to move up another foot or so. Just wanted others thoughts on it.

 

[bengley]

Not a problem if the doors aren't released. Sometimes people misjudge their braking a wee bit.

 

[357]

Not reportable, providing doors haven't been opened. Advisable to check the PTI before moving forward if you feel there is a risk.

train was fully on platform and doors not released. Only had to move up another foot or so. Just wanted others thoughts on it.

Depending on location the driver may have no idea how tight it is or that the train is already fully accommodated. Better safe than sorry.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Dec 2024 ==

Not a problem if the doors aren't released. Sometimes people misjudge their braking a wee bit.

Or in my case that I told you about, had been in emergency almost a mile due to low adhesion and stopped 2ft off the end of the platform

 

[AverageJoe]

train was fully on platform and doors not released. Only had to move up another foot or so. Just wanted others thoughts on it.

So it’s something that actually happened rather than the hypothetical situation you implied.

If the train was fully on the platform then there is no suggestion they have stopped short. It may be that the on board automatics selective door operation didn’t correctly pick up a beacon.

I hope aren’t trying to get involved and report someone.

 

[Railsigns]

SCM = Stop Car Mark

Car Stop Marker (CSM) is the correct term.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Or in my case that I told you about, had been in emergency almost a mile due to low adhesion and stopped 2ft off the end of the platform

Surely, a severe incident of low adhesion should be reported anyway? In such a scenario rail conditions will provide mitigation for the short stop.

 

[mt219]

So it’s something that actually happened rather than the hypothetical situation you implied.

If the train was fully on the platform then there is no suggestion they have stopped short. It may be that the on board automatics selective door operation didn’t correctly pick up a beacon.

I hope aren’t trying to get involved and report someone.

I’d never grass anyone up.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Dec 2024 ==

Car Stop Marker (CSM) is the correct term.

Not on my company

 

[bengley]

Surely, a severe incident of low adhesion should be reported anyway? In such a scenario rail conditions will provide mitigation for the short stop.

It was reported

 

[PupCuff]

If it's just the car stop marker misjudged and you're not actually off the platform, then aye, from a safety perspective at least it wouldn't be something to report.

Not on my company

Then your company isn't using the correct term

 

[357]

Surely, a severe incident of low adhesion should be reported anyway? In such a scenario rail conditions will provide mitigation for the short stop.

It was.

I was replying to @bengley who spoke about misjudging braking - referring to an incident that was spoken about in a WhatsApp group that's exclusively for drivers from different TOCs/FOCs.

I should have explained better for others reading - apologies.

The point is a "stop short" can happen for any number of reasons. A "stop short + doors release" is when things get serious.

Another recent incident when I stopped half way down the platform was when I saw a pushchair with no brakes blowing towards the track. Fortunately another passenger heard my horn and caught it before it fell, however im then stuck half way down the platform. I checked it was safe to move and pulled up to the correct position, released the doors and then informed the signaller and control.

A stop short can happen for any of a large number of reasons, it's what you do once you've stopped that matters more.

 

[Railsigns]

Not on my company

How many have you seen with "stop car" written on them, versus the countless thousands of them that say "car stop"?

The industry-agreed Rail Industry Standards call them car stop markers.

 

[800301]

How many have you seen with "stop car" written on them, versus the countless thousands of them that say "car stop"?

The industry-agreed Rail Industry Standards call them car stop markers.

GWR refer to them as Platform Stop Markers to throw a spanner in the works

 

[Railsigns]

GWR refer to them as Platform Stop Marks to throw a spanner in the works

At least that name makes sense (even if it's not what the Rule Book calls them). "Stop car marker" makes no sense.

 

[philthetube]

and the underground call them stopping marks, though to be fair they have no writing on them.

Slightly on topic because Chiltern use them.

 

[12LDA28C]

and the underground call them stopping marks, though to be fair they have no writing on them.

Slightly on topic because Chiltern use them.

Chiltern use their own car stop markers on LU infrastructure, they do not use the LU stopping marks which only apply to LU S-stock.

 

[gatters]

and the underground call them stopping marks, though to be fair they have no writing on them.

Slightly on topic because Chiltern use them.

there is at least one with writing on used by Chiltern, an 'S Car Stop' on the southbound platform at Chalfont and Latimer. that may be the only one though

 

[PringlePopper1]

This all depends what the signal is showing at the end of the platform (if applicable).

Red at the end, report yourself and ask permission to move to correct place.

Green at the end, move up to correct place then report yourself.

Regardless if it’s a stop short no door release - you should always report yourself before someone else does it for you, regardless of what the cause was.

 

[12LDA28C]

there is at least one with writing on used by Chiltern, an 'S Car Stop' on the southbound platform at Chalfont and Latimer. that may be the only one though

It’s not the only one. All LU stations served by Chiltern from Amersham to Harrow-on-the-Hill have car stop markers for use by Chiltern drivers.

 

[PringlePopper1]

This all depends what the signal is showing at the end of the platform (if applicable).

Red at the end, report yourself and ask permission to move to correct place.

Green at the end, move up to correct place then report yourself.

Regardless if it’s a stop short no door release - you should always report yourself before someone else does it for you, regardless of what the cause was.

And at my TOC it’s stop car mark

 

[12LDA28C]

And at my TOC it’s stop car mark

Is that what it’s referred to in your official TOC documentation? It literally makes no sense to say ‘a 4 stop car mark’ or an ‘8 stop car mark’. But it does to say a 4-car stop marker.

 

[PringlePopper1]

Well officially it’s car stop mark but everyone (drivers, management, most emails) will call it stop car mark. I’ve only ever called it SCM as that’s what it was introduced to me as, also IMO rolls off the tongue better

 

[mt219]

This all depends what the signal is showing at the end of the platform (if applicable).

Red at the end, report yourself and ask permission to move to correct place.

Green at the end, move up to correct place then report yourself.

Regardless if it’s a stop short no door release - you should always report yourself before someone else does it for you, regardless of what the cause was.

Even if you’re only a foot short of the mark?

 

[dk1]

As long as I hadn’t released the doors I would just move up and certainly wouldn’t report myself. No reason too.

 

[AverageJoe]

Even if you’re only a foot short of the mark?

In most cases a foot short isn’t stopping short and nothing would need to be done.

 

[357]

As long as I hadn’t released the doors I would just move up and certainly wouldn’t report myself. No reason too.

On my training we were even told if we stop an 8 car at the 4 car board, just check the monitors and pull up to the correct position, providing you haven't released the doors.

 

[dk1]

On my training we were even told if we stop an 8 car at the 4 car board, just check the monitors and pull up to the correct position, providing you haven't released the doors.

Yeah precisely that mate. If time a simple PA announcement might help just incase someone panics and pulls a pass-com but that’s it.