Stopped by fraud team

[Bones_4411]

Hi all,

This morning I was stopped exiting the barriers at London Blackfriars by two plain clothed fraud officers. They knew my name and claimed that they had data to suggest I had been buying 2 1 stop train tickets for my journey since 2024. I explained that I had skipped the train on this occasion but one of the officers claimed that he had seen a QR code which i denied. They outlined they had CCTV footage whichI asked for them to provide which they couldn't and I then asked for the police to be called - when they arrived I admitted that I had not paid for a ticket - The fraud team continued to ask me questions where I repeatedly said that I had not paid a ticket and was happy to pay the fine. The rail officer asked if I would like to go to court or settle directly with rail company - I chose the latter.

Im expecting a notice of intend to prosecute, my question is, what is the best way to respond to the letter when it arrives and what are my options ?
Thanks

 

[z444z]

What train company are you dealing with?

 

[Bones_4411]

Thameslink

 

[AlterEgo]

Stopped on an intelligence-led stop where they had all your information and CCTV?

Cease posting online immediately and instruct a solicitor. This is vastly more serious than your average case.

 

[Bones_4411]

Stopped on an intelligence-led stop where they had all your information and CCTV?

Cease posting online immediately and instruct a solicitor. This is vastly more serious than your average case.

Stopped on an intelligence-led stop where they had all your information and CCTV?

Cease posting online immediately and instruct a solicitor. This is vastly more serious than your average case.

I'm not disputing the severity of the incident - why would you suggest not posting online? I though that forums provided immunity ?

 

[z444z]

Cease posting online immediately and instruct a solicitor. This is vastly more serious than your average case.

Is there any chance it’s worth waiting for the letter from GTR, or do you think there’s significant benefit in getting a solicitor at this stage?

 

[Bones_4411]

Is there any chance it’s worth waiting for the letter from GTR, or do you think there’s significant benefit in getting a solicitor at this stage?

Not sure - Seeking advice - Happy to talk to a solicitor but wanted to know if anyone had any other suggestions to respond.

 

[Frontera2]

@AlterEgo is right - this is serious so get urgent legal advice and stop posting anything about it publicly.

 

[z444z]

AlterEgo is right - this is serious so get urgent legal advice and stop posting anything about it publicly.

I don’t doubt that, was just asking to try to understand better and I imagine the OP might want to understand the reasoning better too

 

[furlong]

Is there any chance it’s worth waiting for the letter from GTR, or do you think there’s significant benefit in getting a solicitor at this stage?

Wait. You said you agreed that they should send you a settlement offer.

Cease travelling by train OR always buy the right ticket before boarding any train. You don't get a second chance now and they will still be watching you.

 

[Bones_4411]

Wait. You said you agreed that they should send you a settlement offer.

Cease travelling by train OR always buy the right ticket before boarding any train. You don't get a second chance now and they will still be watching you.

Yes, they will be sending me a settlement offer as I agreed to manage this directly with the rail company.

 

[z444z]

Yes, they will be sending me a settlement offer as I agreed to manage this directly with the rail company.

I don’t think you can be certain of this.

 

[Bones_4411]

I don’t think you can be certain of this.

Im not certain as I will only know when the letter arrives but thats what was outlined.

 

[WesternLancer]

I don’t think you can be certain of this.

agreed - I can't think of a case we have seen where that happened as a direct result of a conversation with an inspector on the day of being caught. But that is not to say it can't happen.

My instinct would be that the OP (if they don't get a solicitors before they receive the letter) will get a letter from GTR. If it's not the standard letter it might be a version that we occasionally see copies of where people are invited to an interview under PACE conditions or to 'discuss the matter' (essentially an interview where they can gather more evidence to use against you if needed is what these are usually interpreted as on this forum)

I think the choice for the OP is whether to approach solicitors* that deal with rail fare evasion now in the hope this can be resolved smoothly with legal help asap, or seek quotes from solicitors with the view to engage them when they hare from GTR.

Of course GTRs recent publicity on the BBC with a high profile fare evader (last week) may well reflect a hardening of their stance against repeated evasion and . or the language that front line staff will use when discussing such matters with an evader they have caught - either by chance or as part of a pre planned 'interception'.

* @Bones_4411 - there are examples of a few solicitors firms that get mentioned on this forum who have a track record in this sort of work if you wish to seek quotes for their services.

 

[z444z]

Not sure - Seeking advice - Happy to talk to a solicitor but wanted to know if anyone had any other suggestions to respond.

Whether or not you get a solicitor now (which is certainly the option least likely to end with a criminal conviction, but which may or may not be affordable or worth it to you at this stage) or if you wait to see if it’s necessary once GTR write to you, you should not share any more information about what happened publicly, and should not do anything until GTR do write to you, other than pay the correct fare every single time. Not doing so from this point onwards would be disastrous to your chances of avoiding a criminal conviction.

 

[Hadders]

There is nothing to be gained by instructing a solicitor at this point. Wait until the letter is received from GTR then come back here and forum members will advise on how best to proceed.

 

[z444z]

There is nothing to be gained by instructing a solicitor at this point. Wait until the letter is received from GTR then come back here and forum members will advise on how best to proceed.

I am leaning towards this opinion but am interested to know why @AlterEgo, who tends to give the exact advice you’ve just given, has said otherwise in this case.

OP - if you’re considering solicitors, the main one that comes to mind is Manak. They seem to be the most frequently used by posters here and I have seen nothing but glowing reviews.

Fare Evasion Solicitors

Skilled legal defence for fare evasion cases. Rely on our experienced team to protect your rights, challenge penalties, and guide you through the process.

manaksolicitors.co.uk

 

[WesternLancer]

I am leaning towards this opinion but am interested to know why @AlterEgo, who tends to give the exact advice you’ve just given, has said otherwise in this case.

OP - if you’re considering solicitors, the main one that comes to mind is Manak. They seem to be the most frequently used by posters here and I have seen nothing but glowing reviews.

Fare Evasion Solicitors

Skilled legal defence for fare evasion cases. Rely on our experienced team to protect your rights, challenge penalties, and guide you through the process.

manaksolicitors.co.uk

other firms that have been mentioned by forum users over the years, from which quotes could presumably be sought include:


Fare Evasion Solicitors London | High Success Rate | TFL Solicitors

Facing prosecution for fare evasion? Our expert fare evasion solicitors in London fight to protect your record. With deep expertise in TFL solicitors' defence, we help you avoid fines, criminal convictions, and lasting consequences. Act now—secure expert legal representation today!

www.makwanas.co.uk


http://www.grayhooperholt.co.uk/default.asp?id=30


https://penmansedgwick.com/fare-evasion/

 

[Bones_4411]

Thanks for the resource and responses to this thread - will come back when I have received a letter.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm not disputing the severity of the incident - why would you suggest not posting online? I though that forums provided immunity ?

Because unlike nearly everyone else they have been watching you for some time, and have invested significant resources into collecting intelligence on your offences and in stopping you. They will have evidence of a serious amount of offending for which they may or may not prosecute, and could even end up passing the case to the police. This is quite unlike most cases where evidence of only one offence can be proven to the criminal standard. Here, they have all your information and have literally been watching you do this time and time again, and have all the receipts and CCTV.

This is a public forum, you are easily identifiable to the investigation team, and no, you are not "immune". It may be that they have evidence of offences under the Fraud Act, which are serious offences you can be imprisoned for.

Your best strategy is to go "no comment" (did you do this during the stop?) and instruct a solicitor, who will no doubt tell you to stop talking about this on a public forum. Nothing that was said during the stop is binding on either party and the sole reason for doing it was to ascertain your identity - and collect evidence which could be used against you in court.

A solicitor will also help you mitigate any compensation paid if there is an out of court settlement, and will likely be worth the investment given you have been fare evading habitually for over 12 months.

 

[furlong]

The OP indicates they've already done the PACE interview (that's how they do targetted operations) and the conclusion was they're prepared to offer a settlement. So wait for the letter setting that out. You can still get a solicitor then should it turn out not to be so straightforward.

 

[z444z]

The OP indicates they've already done the PACE interview (that's how they do targetted operations) and the conclusion was they're prepared to offer a settlement.

There can sometimes be an “offer” of a further interview under caution - generally not one that should be accepted, but it is possible they’ll offer one as a next step.

I’m not so sure that the conclusion was that a settlement was agreed as the course of action.

The rail officer asked if I would like to go to court or settle directly with rail company - I chose the latter.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I wouldn't rush to instruct a solicitor but it probably wouldn't harm to contact a couple of them to have an initial discussion with them. You may not get long to act once you do get correspondence from GTR, so it would be a good idea to know where to get advice if you need it.

But be under no illusions, if this was a targeted stop then you are in serious trouble. If this was a targeted stop then, in my opinion, it will be beyond the collective expertise of this forum.

 

[John R]

A couple of points to add:-

Firstly, if you do get offered a settlement, then given you have been doing this for over a year then it could be very expensive, as GTR will undoubtedly seek to recover the fares for every time you have done this, given the data they obviously have on you. Only you know what journey you have been making, but you might want to work out how many journeys you have made and make an estimate of the funds you might need to have available at very short notice to pay any settlement offer.

The second point is regarding timescales. GTR seems to be working on a 3 to 4 month timescale for letters to be sent out atm, but it's possible that given the resource they have obviously put into this already that you will be in the privileged position of jumping the queue and being contacted very quickly.

 

[Haywain]

But be under no illusions, if this was a targeted stop then you are in serious trouble. If this was a targeted stop then, in my opinion, it will be beyond the collective expertise of this forum.

If the OP was 'greeted' by name you can be certain that it was targetted. It is likely the GTR will settle but it will not be cheap, as they don't do these sort of operations for people who owe a couple of hundred quid

 

[bramling]

There is nothing to be gained by instructing a solicitor at this point. Wait until the letter is received from GTR then come back here and forum members will advise on how best to proceed.

I'd agree with this. GTR generally seem to be more ready to settle out of court compared to some TOCs, however due to the length of time this appears to have been going on then it's going to require a *significant* settlement. Providing the OP has the means to be able to meet this, then I would wait until the letter from GTR arrives before doing anything else. Given the apparent evidence, GTR hold all the cards on this both in terms of whether they offer a settlement at all, and if so how much it would cost. I'd also echo what others have said, that from now on it's game over as far as evading rail fares is concerned.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Only you know what journey you have been making, but you might want to work out how many journeys you have made and make an estimate of the funds you might need to have available at very short notice to pay any settlement offer.

A one-way journey from, say, Bedford to London Blackfriars (=London Thameslink) would currently be priced at £34.80 (or £33.30 if travel was prior to early March 2025). And maybe twice that would be charged for a return journey? Multiply that by the number of occasions when the correct fare wasn't paid for the full journey. Then add a three figure admin fee on top. Soon adds up!

 

[Mattplans]

l(or £33.30 if travel was prior to early March 2025).

Would they charge the most recent fare? Or are they nice enough to charge what the fare was at the time.


Agreed.. completely if OP has been commuting from the Bedfordshire area to Blackfriars on a daily basis and has been doughnutting for years, this is not going to be a cheap settlement.

OPs focus until the letter arrives should be on how they will pay the money back owed to the railway, as there is slim chance the resolution will not involve paying back the unpaid fares.

Some posters have recommended consulting solicitors, but I’m not entirely convinced this is a worthwhile expenditure (especially since GTR is expedient to out of court settlements) based on the amount OP might be needing to pay back…..obviously that is a decision for OP to make independently based on their means financially..

But this is a decision to be made once we see the letter.

 

[Acathater]

Reads to me as if the OP has only admitted to the one offence, not repeat occasions - and that's all that he offered to pay for.
And what's the significance of the comment about a QR code in the original post? What is the relevance of that?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Would they charge the most recent fare? Or are they nice enough to charge what the fare was at the time.

Can't see the OP being charged the current 2025/26 fare for any underpaid journey that was made prior to March 2025.