Stop - start Victoria Line

[Purely]

Anyone know what's going on with the Victoria Line at the moment? Of late travelling southbound in the morning peak the train almost always stops at least once in the tunnel between stations. Doesn't seem to happen travelling north in the evening, and it didn't used to happen before! (For info this is from Finsbury Park southbound).

 

[leonie13]

It may have something to do with a long-standing emergency speed restriction that's in place southbound between Oxford Circus and Green Park. Whilst Finsbury Park is much further back up the line, the trains tend to queue up a little through the central section during the morning rush hour, which has a knock-on effect throughout the line. As you may appreciate, the Victoria Line runs a very intensive service (the timetable is devised in seconds rather than minutes!) hence the slower progress when heading south.

The speed restriction has, allegedly, been in place for sometime, and quite when it will be removed, no-one is sure.

 

[Dstock7080]

The speed restriction has, allegedly, been in place for sometime, and quite when it will be removed, no-one is sure.

20mph Implemented 20 April 2022

 

[100andthirty]

What is the reason for the TSR. Is it anything to do with the high noise levels on that section of track?

 

[Dstock7080]

What is the reason for the TSR. Is it anything to do with the high noise levels on that section of track?

"broken sleeper".

 

[100andthirty]

<emoji of incredulous face> It's now late August, some 4 months since the TSR was imposed. Does it really take more than 4 months to replace a broken sleeper?

 

[Surreytraveller]

<emoji of incredulous face> It's now late August, some 4 months since the TSR was imposed. Does it really take more than 4 months to replace a broken sleeper?

Depends what other more urgent tasks need to be done in order of priority first

 

[Western Sunset]

If it's just a broken sleeper, surely with bullhead track it's easy to knock out the old one and slip in a new one.

 

[Townsend Hook]

Presumably in the tunnels it needs a few ballast beds digging out either side so the adjacent sleepers can be slid up to get enough space to swivel a sleeper round between the rails, I can’t imagine there’s any way a new sleeper could just be slotted in from the side in the conventional fashion.

 

[Western Sunset]

Presumably in the tunnels it needs a few ballast beds digging out either side so the adjacent sleepers can be slid up to get enough space to swivel a sleeper round between the rails, I can’t imagine there’s any way a new sleeper could just be slotted in from the side in the conventional fashion.

Good point.

 

[fgwrich]

If it's just a broken sleeper, surely with bullhead track it's easy to knock out the old one and slip in a new one.

But, how much of the Victoria Line is Bullhead Rail? I think most of it may be Flatbottom rail now.

 

[stuu]

Presumably in the tunnels it needs a few ballast beds digging out either side so the adjacent sleepers can be slid up to get enough space to swivel a sleeper round between the rails, I can’t imagine there’s any way a new sleeper could just be slotted in from the side in the conventional fashion.

I don't think any of the deep tube has ballasted track. It's all concreted in AFAIK, so sleeper replacement needs concrete breaking out which is a much bigger job

 

[Taunton]

I'm pretty sure that in 120 years the professional engineers on the Underground have worked out how to change a sleeper.

 

[Busaholic]

I'm pretty sure that in 120 years the professional engineers on the Underground have worked out how to change a sleeper.

Quite.

 

[Purely]

Thanks all!

 

[Snow1964]

I don't think any of the deep tube has ballasted track. It's all concreted in AFAIK, so sleeper replacement needs concrete breaking out which is a much bigger job

A sleeper bedded in concrete is not going to be able to move, so no real danger there.

if the fixing of the track is loose, slightly different, but one loose baseplate when the one’s around it are all tight doesn’t usually get a 20mph restriction, and everyone will have seen examples where the baseplate is slid sideways (so off centre) and screwed down into new holes because old holes were loose. Or an steel bar screwed on to strengthen something.

Personally I am suspicious of explanation of a single broken sleeper requiring a two thirds reduction in line speed (isn’t the dynamic loading force the square of the speed), whilst the the fault is not deemed serious enough to warrant an emergency repair for over 4 months.

 

[Dave W]

Apologies for bringing this topic back to the fore, but I experienced these issues at the start of the month and thought they'd largely dissipated... This week however it's back with a vengeance. Just now the train came to a stand outside every station from Finsbury Park, including three times at Warren St, up to Oxford Circus where I got off. Similar happened yesterday (admittedly at 8am).

Am I just getting unlucky or has a new issue appeared?

 

[Route115?]

A bit of thread drift, but do you know if the regenerative braking has been switched off on some trains as they seem rather warm.

 

[Mikey C]

A bit of thread drift, but do you know if the regenerative braking has been switched off on some trains as they seem rather warm.

I had wondered about that today. A really noticeable temperature difference this evening between the 2009 and older 1995 stock trains, which isn't usually the case. The 2009s were boiling inside, most unusual in October.

 

[Hadders]

I was going to post about the temperature on the Victoria Line. I don't know if it's just me but it seems to have got insanely hot in recent weeks, feels more like the Central Line...

 

[jp4712]

Ah, so it’s not just me having a ‘personal summer’! I don’t travel on the Victoria all that frequently, Euston - Tottenham Hale every couple of months, but when I did the journey there and back this week I was really struck by how very hot it was.

 

[TFN]

I made a journey very early this morning on the Jubilee and Victoria and the difference between the two in temperature is astounding.

I don't ever remember the Victoria being that hot

 

[bramling]

I made a journey very early this morning on the Jubilee and Victoria and the difference between the two in temperature is astounding.

I don't ever remember the Victoria being that hot

The Vic was always boiling hot in 67 stock days, even in winter. Since then two things have happened, regenerative braking on the 09 stock, and a quite significant upgrade of the tunnel ventilation system with measures like more powerful / efficient fans.

It’s interesting how the Jubilee has always been cooler, its tunnel ventilation has always seemed to work better.

Regenerative braking makes a massive difference.

 

[Dstock7080]

I don't think any of the deep tube has ballasted track. It's all concreted in AFAIK, so sleeper replacement needs concrete breaking out which is a much bigger job

a recent picture of engineering work at Pimlico:

 

[100andthirty]

I travelled recently from Euston to Victoria at the end of the morning peak and it was signal to signal all the way to Green Park before travelling at normal speed to Victoria. I wonder if the comparatively low speed affecting air flow though the tunnels and the number of stop starts (using more energy) contributed to the higher temperature.

 

[thomalex]

Personally I'm all for slower speeds it certainly helps keep the noise levels down.

 

[notverydeep]

Personally I'm all for slower speeds it certainly helps keep the noise levels down.

Unfortunately, slowing the trains down would inevitably increase the round trip time and with no more trains available for service would have the effect of reducing the frequency and in turn increasing waiting times and on train crowding, including on alternative routes which would be come more attractive in comparison...