• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Stone train enquiry

Status
Not open for further replies.

Whiteway215

Established Member
Joined
15 Sep 2015
Messages
2,138
Location
Bath
This afternoon at around 1715 hours I watched a long double headed quarry stone train heading from Bath towards Bradford on Avon.
Can anyone tell me the destination of these trains please and any other information about them? Thank you.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Whiteway215

Established Member
Joined
15 Sep 2015
Messages
2,138
Location
Bath

Freightmaster

Verified Rep
Joined
7 Jul 2009
Messages
4,437
...and any other information about them? Thank you.
As per the earlier reply, this is one of many stone trains which run each day in connection with the construction of HS2.

This particular train is unusual in that it is unloaded on the running line between Aylesbury and Little Kimble,
which has to be done at night when no other trains are booked to use that section of line.

It is double headed due to the weight of the train - here is a shot of it heading down the 'new' lines at Narroways:





MARK
 

317362

Member
Joined
7 Sep 2017
Messages
352
Every now and then it runs with several/some wagons still loaded when running West back from Little Kimble, presumably there is therefore a window to unload and they don't always manage all of it, it's a really long train.
 

furnessvale

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2015
Messages
4,901
Every now and then it runs with several/some wagons still loaded when running West back from Little Kimble, presumably there is therefore a window to unload and they don't always manage all of it, it's a really long train.
Happens in the Peak District and probably everywhere with stone traffic. More important to keep tp the path and get back for the next load than screw everthing up for one or two wagon loads in a train.
 

billh

Member
Joined
7 Jan 2015
Messages
320
Happens in the Peak District and probably everywhere with stone traffic. More important to keep tp the path and get back for the next load than screw everthing up for one or two wagon loads in a train.
How is this squared with the customer? Presume , over time, they would not get the amount of stone they thought they should have?Are extra trains run to make up for this?
In the opposite- I was informed a couple of years ago of empty wagons running in an otherwise loaded consist because those empties were faulty in some way and could not carry any load. So, a nominal 2200 ton train of say 24 wagons was not actually anything like that, I hope the customer was made aware of this!
 

SuspectUsual

Established Member
Joined
11 Jul 2018
Messages
6,723
How is this squared with the customer? Presume , over time, they would not get the amount of stone they thought they should have?Are extra trains run to make up for this?
In the opposite- I was informed a couple of years ago of empty wagons running in an otherwise loaded consist because those empties were faulty in some way and could not carry any load. So, a nominal 2200 ton train of say 24 wagons was not actually anything like that, I hope the customer was made aware of this!

I’d imagine with a massive job like HS2 the customer won’t really know exactly how much stone they’ll need until construction is well underway, so it’d all be squared off at the end
 

furnessvale

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2015
Messages
4,901
How is this squared with the customer? Presume , over time, they would not get the amount of stone they thought they should have?Are extra trains run to make up for this?
In the opposite- I was informed a couple of years ago of empty wagons running in an otherwise loaded consist because those empties were faulty in some way and could not carry any load. So, a nominal 2200 ton train of say 24 wagons was not actually anything like that, I hope the customer was made aware of this!
Yes, both scenarios are true. With a constant flow situation,and the customer stockpiling at the receiving end, over time things will balance out. Using very round figures, on average a 24 wagon train perhaps averages 23 loads per trip and this could be factored into the service.
 

DavidGrain

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2017
Messages
1,488
I was wondering what had happened to the trains with the stone that used to go to Calvert now that the line north of Quainton Road is closed.
I presume the binliners are going to other waste disposal sites.
 
Last edited:

JustPassingBy

Member
Joined
17 Oct 2018
Messages
73
I was wondering what had happened to the trains with the stone that used to go to Calton now that the line north of Quainton Road is closed.
I presume the binliners are going to other waste disposal sites.
Do you mean Calvert rather than Calton?
 

Freightmaster

Verified Rep
Joined
7 Jul 2009
Messages
4,437
I was wondering what had happened to the trains with the stone that used to go to Calvert now that the line north of Quainton Road is closed.
I presume the binliners are going to other waste disposal sites.
- the Cricklewood binliner ceased operation three or four years ago

- the former spoil traffic from Bow/Cricklewood to Calvert now runs to Tinsley and/or Peterborough

- the stone traffic from Tytherington to Calvert now runs to Appleford/Little Kimble







MARK
 

Adrian Barr

Member
Joined
2 Jul 2020
Messages
758
Location
Doncaster
How is this squared with the customer? Presume , over time, they would not get the amount of stone they thought they should have?Are extra trains run to make up for this?
In the opposite- I was informed a couple of years ago of empty wagons running in an otherwise loaded consist because those empties were faulty in some way and could not carry any load. So, a nominal 2200 ton train of say 24 wagons was not actually anything like that, I hope the customer was made aware of this!

There will be a record of the weight of material loaded into each train (often recorded by the train passing over a weighbridge on arrival and departure at the loading siding). For example if a train loads 2000 tons and returns with 200 tons of product, the next day it might load 1800 tons but discharge 2000 tons including the material from the previous day. It will be recorded that 3800 tons were loaded and delivered in total.

Most aggregate services run to a weekly plan and the number of trains ordered can vary from week to week depending on terminal stock levels and demand for material; if a train is cancelled one week there may be scope to run an additional train the following week. There will be conditions in the contracts to deal with issues like short notice cancellations by the rail operator or customer, defective wagons that can't be loaded, or a train that was supposed to run with 24 wagons only having 23 on it, situations where trains can't be fully offloaded due to customer equipment breakdown or late arrival and so on.

On YouTube the "Ashville" channel is very good for showing the operations at a typical aggregate depot (Thorney Mill) and some of the issues involved - https://www.youtube.com/c/thisisashville/search?query=train
They recently did a full video about offloading trains, titled "How We Offload a Freight Train in 3hrs to Avoid a £20k Fine!"
I think the "fine" they mention is a charge (possibly £1000 per wagon?) that they would have to pay if they return wagons loaded, which then have the wrong product in them (i.e. different size or grade of aggregate) for the next planned working from the loading point to a different customer.

Wagons sometimes return loaded from a terminal when the bays containing a certain type of material are full, but at Little Kimble the issue is more likely to be due to time constraints as mentioned in posts above. With HS2 everything is on a different scale and there are huge volumes being moved compared to a typical aggregate depot serving general construction work.
 

Snow1964

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2019
Messages
11,092
Location
West Wiltshire
This afternoon at around 1715 hours I watched a long double headed quarry stone train heading from Bath towards Bradford on Avon.
Can anyone tell me the destination of these trains please and any other information about them? Thank you.

It is routed this way due to removal of nearly all the station loops on the route via Swindon to Didcot, in the days of steam hauled coal trains there were 5 or 6 places to be overtaken (most loops weren’t long enough for these huge stone trains anyway), nowadays with just 2 tracks, the frequent high speed passenger trains would be delayed by catching it up. The route via Badminton would be shorter.

The route along Avon valley and Kennett valley via Bath and Newbury doesn’t have any steep climbs and passenger trains are either slower or less frequent so is easier to fit in a relatively slow heavy freight train
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top