Stoke-London, Any day - cheapest train?

[premier01]

I wouldn't rely on that if I were you - remember that Penalty Fare rules and local instructions always take precedence over those Excess Fare procedures.

In a penalty fare zone it's a different ball game-this is really about changing travel plans at the station before boarding the train.

On VT for example u can only buy Anytime tickets now on the train.

 

[RJ]

In a penalty fare zone it's a different ball game-this is really about changing travel plans at the station before boarding the train.

On VT for example u can only buy Anytime tickets now on the train.

Where did you quote that text from then? If it was the "No opportunity to buy before boarding" page then that's the instructions for on board guards - not the same as what is done at a ticket office.

 

[premier01]

Where did you quote that text from then? If it was the "No opportunity to buy before boarding" page then that's the instructions for on board guards - not the same as what is done at a ticket office.

The documentation that I have seen doesn't delineate between the situations for changes to ticket types-it only seems to be the over distance excess that does that-as for VT local instruction guess that takes precedence over the general process as u stated in previous post.

I don't think it would be easy for ATOC to defend their policies in court if ever challenged as too many contradictions and rules not published in public domain etc as well documented on these forums and other locations.

 

[island]

I don't think it would be easy for ATOC to defend their policies in court if ever challenged as too many contradictions and rules not published in public domain etc as well documented on these forums and other locations.

And I think that is the crux of the issue. If a case ended up in either civil or criminal court because of a dispute that was not clear-cut, the court would properly apply the UTCCRs and the common law principle of contra proferentem (that is to say that an ambiguous term in a contract will be construed to give the interpretation most favourable to the person who didn't propose it).

 

[Keele13]

I'm sure you'll all be pleased to know that my colleague went to London in the car!

 

[alexjames]

Much talk above about a £22.50 super off peak LM only fare from Euston to Stoke. I need a Wealdstone - Stoke variant for an early May weekend date but I've just had a few goes on LM's site and saw no trace of it. All I can see is stupidly expensive Virgin fares. Some guidance on how to get it please.

 

[RJ]

Much talk above about a £22.50 super off peak LM only fare from Euston to Stoke. I need a Wealdstone - Stoke variant for an early May weekend date but I've just had a few goes on LM's site and saw no trace of it. All I can see is stupidly expensive Virgin fares. Some guidance on how to get it please.

Flow does not exist - you'll need to buy from either Euston or Watford Junction in addition to a ticket to get you there.

 

[Mojo]

I am confused by the Break of Journey restriction on a London Terminals - Stoke on Trent LM Only Super Off-Peak Return. At first it says no Break of Journey, then further down it says Break of Journey is permitted.

 

[LexyBoy]

I am confused by the Break of Journey restriction on a London Terminals - Stoke on Trent LM Only Super Off-Peak Return. At first it says no Break of Journey, then further down it says Break of Journey is permitted.

Where are you looking? I can't see anywhere where it says it is permitted (restriction code LK).

Does the time restriction part mean it's not valid on trains which depart anywhere between 1630 and 1930, or only on the stretch the ticket covers?

 

[Mojo]

Where are you looking?

In Avantix

[B]Break of journey is not       
permitted except to change    
trains at an intermediate     
station or to access station  
facilities.  [/B]                 
SSS/SSR/OPS/OPR/SOP           
SUPER OFF-PEAK                
                              
Ticket Code:           OPS/SSS
Ticket Class:         STANDARD
Ticket Name:    SUPER OFF-PEAK
Single/Return:          SINGLE
Out Validity:-                
Day -           DATE ON TICKET
Time -               SEE BELOW
[B]Break of Journey:          YES[/B]
Pre-Booking Requirement:  NONE
Reservations Compulsory:    NO
Child Discount:            YES
Railcard Discount:         YES
Refunds: See 'Refunds' section
                              
Ticket Code:       SOP/OPR/SSR
Ticket Class:         STANDARD
Ticket Name:    SUPER OFF-PEAK
Single/Return:          RETURN
Out Validity:-                
Day -           DATE ON TICKET
Time -               SEE BELOW
Rtn Validity:-                
Day -               WITHIN ONE
______________  CALENDAR MONTH
[B]Break of Jrny: (OUT)       YES
               (RTN)       YES[/B]
Pre-Booking Requirement:  NONE
Reservations Compulsory:    NO
Child Discount:            YES
Railcard Discount:         YES
Refunds: See 'Refunds' Section
                              
Group discounts   SSS/SSR  YES
______________SOP/OPS/OPR___NO

 

[LexyBoy]

In Avantix

Hmm, strange. Are the lower restrictions generic for all Super Off Peak ticket types? Or perhaps some dodgy copy-pasting when these fares were introduced?

 

[RJ]

I am confused by the Break of Journey restriction on a London Terminals - Stoke on Trent LM Only Super Off-Peak Return. At first it says no Break of Journey, then further down it says Break of Journey is permitted.

Break of Journey is permitted on Super Off Peak tickets, unless the restriction text specifically forbids it.

Where are you looking? I can't see anywhere where it says it is permitted (restriction code LK).

Does the time restriction part mean it's not valid on trains which depart anywhere between 1630 and 1930, or only on the stretch the ticket covers?

You cannot begin the journey at any station between 16:30 and 19:30. The exception being if you have an OP ticket and are using the 18:29 service ex Euston, because it's the last Trent Valley stopper of the day. On that service only, OP tickets can be used to board at any station it picks up at.

 

[Mojo]

Break of Journey is permitted on Super Off Peak tickets, unless the restriction text specifically forbids it.

This is a different issue to the one we had in the past (see here for those confused) and I am not referring to the generic text. The restriction text explicitly says it is not allowed, then on two separate occasions later (for each of the Super Off-Peak Single and Return) it says that it is allowed.

 

[LexyBoy]

You cannot begin the journey at any station between 16:30 and 19:30. The exception being if you have an OP ticket and are using the 18:29 service ex Euston, because it's the last Trent Valley stopper of the day. On that service only, OP tickets can be used to board at any station it picks up at.

Thanks, that's nice and easy to understand then. The restriction text could be read as meaning it's not allowed on any service which stops anywhere between these times (which would presumably exclude most of the afternoon).

This is a different issue to the one we had in the past (see here for those confused) and I am not referring to the generic text. The restriction text explicitly says it is not allowed, then on two separate occasions later (for each of the Super Off-Peak Single and Return) it says that it is allowed.

Presumably the text at the top of the restriction overrules the "list" type information below? The information in the list is not found in the restriction text on the National Rail site, so I assume that unless otherwise specified the generic conditions for that ticket type apply, and this list in Advantix is mainly for convenience.

Of course, it's still a pretty daft mistake.