Stockport-Denton line closed

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It sounds good. However, which would people really prefer:

1. Service every 30 minutes from Buxton to Manchester
2. Service every 30 minutes between Buxton and Hazel Grove. Destinations alternate between Manchester and Huddersfield. Connections possibly available at Hazel Grove.

PLease note that when I suggested Buxton to Huddersfield originally, it was to give a reason for the retention of the Stockport to Stalybridge line and how this could be used as part of the route of new transport possibilities that are currently being examined. That route would offer a rail link to the North Derbyshire to West Yorkshire regions that is not met at present.

This thread is concerned with the Stockport to Stalybridge line and any new thinking on its use surely cannot be a bad idea. Let's face it, how much would this line cost to construct if it was not there....so let us be thankful that this asset does actually exist and find some useful reason for retaining it.

 

[northwichcat]

PLease note that when I suggested Buxton to Huddersfield originally, it was to give a reason for the retention of the Stockport to Stalybridge line and how this could be used as part of the route of new transport possibilities that are currently being examined. That route would offer a rail link to the North Derbyshire to West Yorkshire regions that is not met at present.

I'm not sure it's the best option for using the Stockport-Stalybridge line and would there even be enough paths between Hazel Grove and Stockport at peak times to run such a service? Diverting existing peak times extras to Huddersfield with connections for Manchester wouldn't go down well when there's overcrowded doubled up Sprinters running between Buxton and Manchester.

 

[tbtc]

The one thing in favour of running a Stockport - Staleybridge service off a service from the Buxton/Hazel Grove line is that you wouldn't need to disrupt existing services at Stockport station (since you'd be running from the south east side to the north east side).

Any plan for a service from the Altricham line is more complicated because you'd need to cross *every* line at Stockport which is going to be hard (given the increase in longer distance services that way)

 

[northwichcat]

Any plan for a service from the Altricham line is more complicated because you'd need to cross *every* line at Stockport which is going to be hard (given the increase in longer distance services that way)

True but then the Hazel Grove-Preston services cross all paths at present. Although, I think one the first morning Chester-Stockport service shunts around at Stockport and goes ECS to Hazel Grove which suggests the shortage of paths is not around Stockport station but further up on the viaduct and beyond.

I do think a Stockport-Huddersfield service would be a very good idea if Piccadilly is to be served by less TPE services. However, I don't think it would work from Buxton at peak times due to how many services are needed to Manchester from that line.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

True but then the Hazel Grove-Preston services cross all paths at present. Although, I think one the first morning Chester-Stockport service shunts around at Stockport and goes ECS to Hazel Grove which suggests the shortage of paths is not around Stockport station but further up on the viaduct and beyond.

I do think a Stockport-Huddersfield service would be a very good idea if Piccadilly is to be served by less TPE services. However, I don't think it would work from Buxton at peak times due to how many services are needed to Manchester from that line.

I can live with the idea of a Stockport to Huddersfield service as a truncated part of my Buxton to Huddersfield service, as it still gives the reason for keeping the Stockport to Stalybridge line open for use.

Is their any likelihood of FREIGHT traffic flows between Buxton and Huddersfield, using this line?

 

[Sox]

Have You a Map?

I presume it joins the line between GB and Pic, then branches off.

Has anyone an updated version of this as it misses the most interesting bit off:

How weird?

 

[Andrew Nelson]

How weird?

What is?

 

[table38]

There's an old map here

All the pink (GC) and blue (L&Y) lines are still there (apart from the Oldham-soon-to-be-Metrolinked bit), and the line from Denton Junction to Crowthorn Junction and Ashton Moss (West) Junction is still there.

Everything else is long gone, although the track bed from Guide Bridge to Crowthorn is retained.

(Oh and strictly speaking you can only get from Hyde Junction to Stalybridge via the sidings - there is no direct connection at present)

 

[northwichcat]

I can live with the idea of a Stockport to Huddersfield service as a truncated part of my Buxton to Huddersfield service, as it still gives the reason for keeping the Stockport to Stalybridge line open for use.

This has set me thinking about the mention of the Denton line.

How about a single GREENBANK to HUDDERSFIELD route, via the existing Stockport to Stalybridge line that is looking for an increased useage. You will get a WCML connection to the West Yorkshire area with no extra Manchester paths involved. It does not clash with the Preston to Bradford route via Blackburn and Hebden Bridge that already has a WCML connection at Preston. Does this idea of mine require much path crossing at Stockport?.

Path crossing will be an issue in the peaks but less of an issue off-peak. Putting more local services on the Buxton line may mean despite less path crossing they have to be held to allow the faster TPE and EMT services through first, a bit like with the Manchester-Warrington-Liverpool line.

If you look at off-peak loadings it would make sense to either send an additional Greenbank-Stockport service up the Denton line. The other sensible option at off-peak times (for loading reasons only) would be to divert the Alderley Edge-Manchester via Stockport service up the Denton line.

Is their any likelihood of FREIGHT traffic flows between Buxton and Huddersfield, using this line?

Doubtful. The chemical works in the Northwich area use a huge amount of limestone quarried from the Buxton area so I doubt they'll be sending limestone anywhere else.

I imagine Huddersfield uses a lot of rock salt in the winter but that comes from the Winsford and Middlewich areas not Derbyshire.

 

[DiscoSteve]

I'd like to see a chord put in linking Belle-Vue to Brinnington with this line to allow services from Marple & Romiley into Stockport (replacing the old CLC line into Stockport Tiviot Dale)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'd like to see a chord put in linking Belle-Vue to Brinnington with this line to allow services from Marple & Romiley into Stockport (replacing the old CLC line into Stockport Tiviot Dale)

Whilst I admire your reasoning, do I take it that you mean putting in a link from Brinnington to Reddish South (near to where one line crosses over the other) to enable Marple and Romiley passengers to access Stockport via the Stalybridge to Stockport line? It does seem quite a long way from Marple to Stockport that way, though it offers much in the way of scenic attraction.

I think that you will find that Stagecoach Manchester's bi-directional 383/384 circular bus routes would possibly compete for passengers very strongly and I think that you will find Rose Hill station is also served by these buses..

Still, I am all for anyone who comes up with any positive uses that will keep the rail asset of the Stalybridge to Stockport line open. I tried to suggest Buxton to Huddersfield (limiting path crossing at Stockport) by use of this line, but I believe that reservations have been expressed,

 

[Sox]

So, are things fully up and running for this coming Friday?

If so, please can someone confirm time and platform @ Stockport?

 

[Andrew Nelson]

So, are things fully up and running for this coming Friday?

If so, please can someone confirm time and platform @ Stockport?

They were last Week.

09.22 P4.

 

[Sox]

They were last Week.

09.22 P4.

Cheers

 

[northwichcat]

They were last Week.

09.22 P4.

I think that proves my point that crossing all the paths at Stockport is OK and it's further up on the viaduct where's there's pathing issues.

 

[trickyvegas]

I think that proves my point that crossing all the paths at Stockport is OK and it's further up on the viaduct where's there's pathing issues.

As someone who spent 5 years commuting to Stockport from Stalybridge, the majority of delays seemed to occur after passing Levenshulme, so I would imagine the problem would occur where the airport line joins.

 

[tbtc]

I think that proves my point that crossing all the paths at Stockport is OK and it's further up on the viaduct where's there's pathing issues.

Finding a spare path in the morning doesn't mean there's space for a regular service crossing from the Altricham line to the Staleybridge one.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So, are things fully up and running for this coming Friday?

If so, please can someone confirm time and platform @ Stockport?

Please note that all you dedicated users of the usual Friday Special from Stockport to Stalybridge should be aware that your fame has spread far and wide.

Northern Rail have acknowledged the tourist potential you have brought to this part of Greater Manchester and have decided to put another such tourist attraction for the western reaches of the North-West, in the new Liverpool to Manchester (et al) timetable 15 which is valid from 22nd May 2011 to 10th December 2011. If you look on page 35 which has a dedicated page all to itself, you will find:-

SATURDAYS ONLY..Until 10th September 2011
**********************************

Chester dep. 0753
Runcorn arr. 0814

THIS IS THE ONLY ITEM ON THAT PAGE.....to give it the maximum amount of publicity.

Notice that they have hedged their bets by only running it in the peak summer period up to 10th September:cry:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Finding a spare path in the morning doesn't mean there's space for a regular service crossing from the Altricham line to the Staleybridge one.

I wonder if the planners who drew up the NETWORK RAIL MANCHESTER HUB DOCUMENT took this matter under serious consideration when the following sub-heading in the document stated:-

NORTHWICH
------------
Potential for GREENBANK/ALTRINCHAM to be linked to ASHTON/GUIDE BRIDGE

It depends on how the word "REGULAR" would be defined, should such a service come into operation,

 

[imagination]

Says Chester 7:53 Runcorn 8:14 to me

 

[northwichcat]

Finding a spare path in the morning doesn't mean there's space for a regular service crossing from the Altricham line to the Stalybridge one.

There's also 4 services at peak times on weekdays to/from the Mid Cheshire line which cross all paths at Stockport to either go to/come from Newton Heath via Denton or to turn around and go to Hazel Grove. They do that because there aren't paths for them to continue to Piccadilly.

If you're ever at Stockport during off-peak times you'll notice that there are times when it goes 5 minutes with no trains arriving or departing, then you get 5 trains in 2 minutes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Northern Rail have acknowledged the tourist potential you have brought to this part of Greater Manchester and have decided to put another such tourist attraction for the western reaches of the North-West, in the new Liverpool to Manchester (et al) timetable 15 which is valid from 22nd May 2011 to 10th December 2011. If you look on page 35 which has a dedicated page all to itself, you will find:-

SATURDAYS ONLY..Until 10th September 2011
**********************************

Chester dep. 0753
Runcorn arr. 0814

You'll find that's not a new service - It happens every summer and it's another parliamentary train. I'm not sure exactly how they get away with not running it in the Winter timetable.

Although, last year Northern in association with WCRUA and MCRUA extended the service to Liverpool South Parkway for one Saturday only with the rail user associations providing vintage ex-Crossville buses for a return journey. Northern advertised it as the first service ever from Chester to Liverpool South Parkway, so possibly in doing so encouraged extra people to use the service as they possibly thought it was a trial for a full regular service.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As someone who spent 5 years commuting to Stockport from Stalybridge, the majority of delays seemed to occur after passing Levenshulme, so I would imagine the problem would occur where the airport line joins.

If you think of it, any commuters from Stockport to places like Stalybridge, Oldham and Rochdale have no direct bus service.

 

[trickyvegas]

If you think of it, any commuters from Stockport to places like Stalybridge, Oldham and Rochdale have no direct bus service.

This is true, to make matters worse - you would normally need to change busses at Ashton - Stagecoach are the only operator with services to Stockport whereas most buses from Oldham & Stalybridge are operated by First so you have to buy a more expensive System One ticket.

 

[Sox]

Caught the Stockport-Stalybridge 09:22 "Parliamentary" service today.

Departed platform 3A pretty much on time, with 3/4 passengers at Stockport and another getting on at Reddish South.

I was expecting something a bit furtive but departure fully displayed, just as all the other services, on station matrix boards.

Seemed odd the train just disappearing from Stalybridge back to, I presume, the depot.

 

[Andrew Nelson]

Caught the Stockport-Stalybridge 09:22 "Parliamentary" service today.

Departed platform 3A pretty much on time, with 3/4 passengers at Stockport and another getting on at Reddish South.

I was expecting something a bit furtive but departure fully displayed, just as all the other services, on station matrix boards.

Seemed odd the train just disappearing from Stalybridge back to, I presume, the depot.

Last week We had 2x 150/1 and about Dozen on as it was a Bank Hol'

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Last week We had 2x 150/1 and about Dozen on as it was a Bank Hol'

What types of units have been running this year?

What are the best..and worse...that have been sent to operate this service?

 

[Bakerbloke]

Did the train have ample space for bikes? I'm thinking of getting on with a bike one Friday.

 

[northwichcat]

What are the best..and worse...that have been sent to operate this service?

142s, 150s and 156s can all appear on the service. Basically whichever unit they want to send back to Newton Heath that way. They found a 156 for the day BBC camera crews were filming on it. When FNW had it I think 153s and 158s could be used as well.

 

[tom1649]

142s, 150s and 156s can all appear on the service. Basically whichever unit they want to send back to Newton Heath that way. They found a 156 for the day BBC camera crews were filming on it. When FNW had it I think 153s and 158s could be used as well.

And until 2003, 101s as well!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

By the way, Network Rail dropped a massive clanger by producing times for Spitfire Tours 'The Holy Oakes', booking it from Stockport to Manchester Victoria via Denton over the set of points that don't exist at Heaton Norris Jn! Passengers had times @ Manchester Victoria to join the mini-tour to Holyhead behind 37s.
Whoops, not going to Victoria & nobody knew it wasn't!
Second blooper, no path via Platforms 13/14 @ Piccadilly!
Only option, reverse in main platforms @ Piccadilly, back to Stockport & via Altrincham & Northwich behind 57601, bad news for those that wanted 37 haulage to Holyhead!

How incompetent can Network Rail be?

In answer to your final point, they have an infinate capacity for this.

How many railtours were actually affected by the time period in which the full works were being carried out at Heaton Norris junction? How many railtours use this route on an annual basis?

 

[D6975]

There's also 4 services at peak times on weekdays to/from the Mid Cheshire line which cross all paths at Stockport to either go to/come from Newton Heath via Denton or to turn around and go to Hazel Grove. They do that because there aren't paths for them to continue to Piccadilly.

If you're ever at Stockport during off-peak times you'll notice that there are times when it goes 5 minutes with no trains arriving or departing, then you get 5 trains in 2 minutes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


You'll find that's not a new service - It happens every summer and it's another parliamentary train. I'm not sure exactly how they get away with not running it in the Winter timetable.

Although, last year Northern in association with WCRUA and MCRUA extended the service to Liverpool South Parkway for one Saturday only with the rail user associations providing vintage ex-Crossville buses for a return journey. Northern advertised it as the first service ever from Chester to Liverpool South Parkway, so possibly in doing so encouraged extra people to use the service as they possibly thought it was a trial for a full regular service.

Is it possible that if a route has historically only been used on Summer Sats, then the requirement to maintain the service is only for Summer Sats?