Stock that's cleared for Strood shunting

[brad465]

Trains that run between Strood and Charing X have to do a specific shunt to get between platforms 1 and 2. This involves the driver going into the rear cab on P1, reversing the train out towards Cuxton, with a pilot/guard sat in the front cab (presumably relaying with the driver), then once past the shunt signal, just beyond the bridge underneath the Chatham mainline, the driver then drives forward into P2, to either start a London-bound service or run empty to a depot/carriage siding. Alternatively, the stock runs empty to Maidstone West to turn round there (one evening peak diagram exists for this).

I have only ever seen Networker units complete this move, either for peak services, or, as is the case today, when the Medway core is shut. Today Charing X-Gravesend services are extended to Strood and Thameslink services are terminating short at Gravesend. Presumably this means 700s are not permitted to do the aforementioned shunt, even though the single continuous unit setup means they would be ideal for it? 395s however are running to Strood today and appearing to do the same shunt, although they're running as 6-car only so presumably won't need a front cab pilot. 376s and 707s don't run to Strood anyway in passenger service, although that might change for the latter when they get toilets.

 

[Class 170101]

Unlikely the driver is in the 'wrong' cab. It will either be one unit and the driver walks through the unit or its a driver in each end if its more than one Networker unit operating together.

The only reason a Class 700 wouldn't run would be that it cannot fit (too long) between CX101 and 1630 signals. Class 700s are walkthrough units unlike a pair of Networkers.

 

[Stephen42]

376s are cleared as far as Maidstone West and 10-car networker formations are booked to do the shunt move, so expect a 376 could as well. With diagrams altered to avoid inter-working as many metro drivers don't sign beyond Gravesend can allocate most appropriate stock for the route. It's not clear from sectional appendix whether 700s or 707s are cleared for that move or if Thameslink drivers would sign it. The current arrangement is a lot easier operationally for other reasons.

Thameslink trains usually stable at Rochester, Gillingham and Rainham with crew depot at Gillingham. All the other trains and crew are north of the river, but the Thameslink core is blocked to early Sunday morning which makes getting trains to Gravesend/Strood difficult. Southeastern have drivers who sign Strood with booked shunts at Slade Green and can drive the first trains of the day. Southeastern Gillingham crew can be taxied to Strood to be the 2nd person for the shunt move and drive some of the trains.

Thameslink on the other hand would have to taxi crew in to where the trains are, drive a train to Strood and then back out. Taking today as an example, the only unit right side of block was stabled at Gravesend. That unit started 1 hour after the usual first Thameslink train on a Sunday, went to London Bridge and back, then headed north again. There was a 2.5 hour gap towards London for Thameslink as no other units and then usual service afterwards as trains from the north filled in. Southeastern on the other hand ran trains from Strood starting 6 minutes later than first usual (Thameslink) train and half hourly straight away with trains sourced from Slade Green/Dartford. This arrangement avoids Strood having barely any early morning trains and reduces stock stabling alterations.

 

[Class 466]

Unlikely the driver is in the 'wrong' cab. It will either be one unit and the driver walks through the unit or its a driver in each end if its more than one Networker unit operating together.

The only reason a Class 700 wouldn't run would be that it cannot fit (too long) between CX101 and 1630 signals. Class 700s are walkthrough units unlike a pair of Networkers.

700s dont do it as TL drivers dont sign the route - all lengths of SE stock cleared to do it. as the OP states, the driver stays in the far cab with a guard/pilotman in the other, hence the very short turnaround times on the shunts.

 

[brad465]

Unlikely the driver is in the 'wrong' cab. It will either be one unit and the driver walks through the unit or its a driver in each end if its more than one Networker unit operating together.

The only reason a Class 700 wouldn't run would be that it cannot fit (too long) between CX101 and 1630 signals. Class 700s are walkthrough units unlike a pair of Networkers.

700s dont do it as TL drivers dont sign the route - all lengths of SE stock cleared to do it. as the OP states, the driver stays in the far cab with a guard/pilotman in the other, hence the very short turnaround times on the shunts.

CX101 is a distant signal, so a train could pass it partially and not be in another signal block. Even if it was a stop signal, I'm sure it wouldn't be a serious barrier to such a shunt, as freight trains reversing into Tonbridge West yard have to pass into the signal block over the east set of crossings in order to clear the points the train will use to reverse into the yard.

As well as a short shunt turnaround time, the other giveaway that the driver is in the far cab, is the front lights are on the far cab, even though this is not the initial direction of travel.

 

[skyhigh]

As well as a short shunt turnaround time, the other giveaway that the driver is in the far cab, is the front lights are on the far cab, even though this is not the initial direction of travel.

I think you have the wrong end of the stick. At certain locations where it isn't possible for drivers to transfer between units via the ballast, units that are not through gangwayed must have two drivers, one at each end.

The driver in the leading cab will drive out. As soon as the 'outward' movement is complete, the driver in the leading cab removes their key and the driver at the trailing end inserts their key and carries out the second 'inward' movement. This changeover happens in seconds.

 

[brad465]

I think you have the wrong end of the stick. At certain locations where it isn't possible for drivers to transfer between units via the ballast, units that are not through gangwayed must have two drivers, one at each end.

The driver in the leading cab will drive out. As soon as the 'outward' movement is complete, the driver in the leading cab removes their key and the driver at the trailing end inserts their key and carries out the second 'inward' movement. This changeover happens in seconds.

Then why has @Class 466 said a guard/pilotman is involved, and they are in the business of Southeastern operations so I take their word on this?

 

[43066]

Then why has @Class 466 said a guard/pilotman is involved, and they are in the business of Southeastern operations so I take their word on this?

Historically the arrangement was that you’d have a driver in the London end cab, they’d isolate TPWS and drive “backwards” with a pilot man (guard) in the forward facing cab observing. Once behind the shunt signal the driver could then drive forwards into platform 2/3. It could also be done with a driver in each end and no need to isolate TPWS and drive backwards: the London end driver would give one on the buzzer once his cab was clear of the shunt signal, wait for the other driver to key off, and then drive forward into the platform.

The reason being, as noted upthread, to prevent anyone having to change ends via the ballast on non gangwayed stock.

 

[LowLevel]

It's not that unusual for the guard to be in control of a propelling move for such circumstances. It's normally done with loco hauled stock but there's nothing to prevent it being done with units.

It is perhaps a bit surprising in this day and age and I could understand moves to be rid of it in the era of TPWS - whether it still happens in this case I don't know.

 

[brad465]

It's not that unusual for the guard to be in control of a propelling move for such circumstances. It's normally done with loco hauled stock but there's nothing to prevent it being done with units.

It is perhaps a bit surprising in this day and age and I could understand moves to be rid of it in the era of TPWS - whether it still happens in this case I don't know.

IIRC there is a distance limit (half a mile?) on how far a consist can be driven in this manner.

If Southeastern could get rid of this procedure at Strood I'm sure they would. If the Networker replacement comes with through gangways this would help, then they just have to bar 376s, 395s and 707s from doing it in multiple. The other options are to terminate trains at Rochester, however that also has limits, such as when the line through there is shut (like on Sunday), or in the peaks it's already a congested area. Or second, as occasionally happens, go to Maidstone West to turn round, but this obviously is a greater distance and has an 8-car limit. There is no room to install a safe walkway at the turnback stretch.

 

[whoosh]

Strood was an anomaly, not having the driver at the leading end of the movement at all times, 25 years ago.
Interesting that the arrangements still haven't changed.