Stock allocation GWR services

[JonathanH]

Where is 150938 primarily operating since it became a 3-car? There were reports of it operating around Exeter in the early part of the month.

 

[JN114]

There is now one Exeter-based 3 car 150 diagram aswell as the 2 Bristol-based ones - currently this is usually covered by 938 (except when it's on Exams), but there's no technical reason why it couldn't swap with one of the other 150/9s next time it's up SPM.

 

[455driver]

926 is currently operating off Exeter so 938 will probably be on the Severn Beaches.

 

[JN114]

926 is currently operating off Exeter so 938 will probably be on the Severn Beaches.

938 worked the 1529 Barnstaple - Exeter Central earlier this afternoon, then went ECS direct from Exeter to SPM as 5C41.

926 was plying its trade on the Worcester - Taunton corridor all day, and was due to outstable in Temple Meads overnight.

925 is showing no allocations for today (Sunday) - I don't have much to do with the west so couldn't say with any certainty what depot its currently languishing in, but I suspect it's SPM.

 

[455driver]

Thats changed since Friday!

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

So after all this, we seem to have established that:

If a service is advertised as NOT having first class, then no matter if the rolling stock that pitches up does have a 1st class seating area, then it is declassified;

BUT

this derogation doesn't actually appear to be written in any formal publication!

Just to add something to this subject.

The withdrawal of first class accommodation from more local services is a process that's been going on a long time, at least 50 years I should think. Those who remember when first generation dmus were refurbished will recall that many of them had their first class areas "converted" to second class (as was) by nothing more than recovering the seats in the appropriate colour/style moquette. This avoided guards having conflicts with passengers on this very issue. The preferred method of dealing with it was to lock the first class areas out of use and I remember that many guards did precisely that where the stock allowed them to do so, in particular where first class was in compartments. However this is often not an option with modern day trains but it would appear nobody has thought it worthwhile clarifying the situation by way of a national edict in writing.

And yes the North Downs line, which used to run Reading to Tonbridge, is exactly where I often experienced all this!

 

[PHILIPE]

Where is 150938 primarily operating since it became a 3-car? There were reports of it operating around Exeter in the early part of the month.

There was a 3 Car Diagram (150 or 14x + 153) at Exeter changed to a 150/9 diagram to accommodate 150938. Doesn't spend all it's time at Exeter as it gets swapped with 150925 and 150926 and works round the Bristol area.

 

[jimm]

Just to add something to this subject.

The withdrawal of first class accommodation from more local services is a process that's been going on a long time, at least 50 years I should think. Those who remember when first generation dmus were refurbished will recall that many of them had their first class areas "converted" to second class (as was) by nothing more than recovering the seats in the appropriate colour/style moquette. This avoided guards having conflicts with passengers on this very issue. The preferred method of dealing with it was to lock the first class areas out of use and I remember that many guards did precisely that where the stock allowed them to do so, in particular where first class was in compartments. However this is often not an option with modern day trains but it would appear nobody has thought it worthwhile clarifying the situation by way of a national edict in writing.

And yes the North Downs line, which used to run Reading to Tonbridge, is exactly where I often experienced all this!

I'm pretty sure that BR refurbished dmus were all turned out from the workshops in the late 1970s and early 1980s with their first class compartments still in place and classified as such. The seating moquette was, I seem to recall, a light brown colour, as opposed to the blue used in second class.

When removal of first class began in the 1980s, it tended to be on an area-by-area basis, such as when the PTEs in Yorkshire and the North West decided to end first class on the services they sponsored - and the initial declassification was done in a similar way to what happened on FGW/GWR more recently - by just removing window stickers and the yellow lines above the windows.

Seat moquettes were changed more gradually, as the depots had better things to do with their time. In West Yorkshire, where I lived at the time, passengers were certainly allowed to use these compartments from the day first class was abolished, whatever colour the seat covers were.

What you observed on the North Downs Line probably had more to do with the fact that the Tadpole Class 206 demu/2-EPB hybrid sets used between Reading and Tunbridge from the mid-1960s to about 1980 did not have any first class seats. The Western Region dmus that replaced them did - for Paddington commuter duties - so the guards would probably have locked the first class compartments out of use to avoid any confusion.

 

[JonathanH]

I'm pretty sure that BR refurbished dmus were all turned out from the workshops in the late 1970s and early 1980s with their first class compartments still in place and classified as such. The seating moquette was, I seem to recall, a light brown colour, as opposed to the blue used in second class.

When removal of first class began in the 1980s, it tended to be on an area-by-area basis, such as when the PTEs in Yorkshire and the North West decided to end first class on the services they sponsored - and the initial declassification was done in a similar way to what happened on FGW/GWR more recently - by just removing window stickers and the yellow lines above the windows.

Seat moquettes were changed more gradually, as the depots had better things to do with their time. In West Yorkshire, where I lived at the time, passengers were certainly allowed to use these compartments from the day first class was abolished, whatever colour the seat covers were.

What you observed on the North Downs Line probably had more to do with the fact that the Tadpole Class 206 demu/2-EPB hybrid sets used between Reading and Tunbridge from the mid-1960s to about 1980 did not have any first class seats. The Western Region dmus that replaced them did - for Paddington commuter duties - so the guards would probably have locked the first class compartments out of use to avoid any confusion.

The initial Western Region dmus used on the North Downs Line were the 'cross-country' class 119s rather than 'surburban' class 117s used on the Paddington commuter duties. (I assume that they were displaced from further west in the region or elsewhere although don't know exactly.)

Class 101s then replaced a large part of the class 119 fleet as they became available following the introduction of more modern stock elsewhere.

Finally, in the very last days of the use of these units, class 117s displaced from the Paddington routes worked the North Downs line.

 

[jimm]

The initial Western Region dmus used on the North Downs Line were the 'cross-country' class 119s rather than 'surburban' class 117s used on the Paddington commuter duties. (I assume that they were displaced from further west in the region or elsewhere although don't know exactly.)

Class 101s then replaced a large part of the class 119 fleet as they became available following the introduction of more modern stock elsewhere.

Finally, in the very last days of the use of these units, class 117s displaced from the Paddington routes worked the North Downs line.

Whatever type they were, they still had first class compartments.

If it was 119s, they would have been Reading-based sets that shared a lot of jobs with 117s, such as the Cotswold Line and Newbury/Bedwyn - and they weren't unknown at Paddington during their Western Region careers.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

What you observed on the North Downs Line probably had more to do with the fact that the Tadpole Class 206 demu/2-EPB hybrid sets used between Reading and Tunbridge from the mid-1960s to about 1980 did not have any first class seats. The Western Region dmus that replaced them did - for Paddington commuter duties - so the guards would probably have locked the first class compartments out of use to avoid any confusion.

The Tadpole units were indeed 2nd class only. But other DEMU types appeared on the route regularly and some of these did have 1st class accommodation. Guards (or depot staff possibly) did lock out the 1st class compartments if the units were on the route all day.

Of course the opposite could occur, particularly on Inter-city routes, namely a massive over-provision of 1st class due to being the only stock available. BR had stickers available for posting on the windows (external and internal) clearly labeling the accommodation as de-classified, again a means of avoiding any disputes arising. Too bad modern day TOCs don't do something similar though perhaps more difficult to utilise on DOO routes.

 

[Parallel]

There was a six-car 158 running between Westbury - Bristol this evening! The ex-Brighton service was running approximately 30 minutes late and was capped at Westbury, and the ex-Portsmouth service then joined to it. The train didn't call at Trowbridge or Bradford On Avon as 6-car formations are too long for the platforms and no SDO. Strangely according to RTT the whole unit was capped at Bristol rather than three coaches continuing to Cardiff (reportedly due to a train fault.)