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STM Security
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RailUK Forums
Taken from http://www.stmsecurity.com/
I can only presume that they are there for security purposes?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Are these security staff on any other stations in the area? Could they be on a specific contract in the region of the station? Why not ask station staff casually if they know anything.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Haven't seen any on other stations but I don't regularly use any other Southern managed stations.
They man the ticket barriers, or at least they do in Burgess Hill and the barriers in Three Bridges are in the subway. I'm surprised they have two with only one gateline, as Burgess Hill has two but with three gatelines (7 gates total, one gateline is manned by video).
Lorol have been using them since before DB even took over operation of the Tyne/Wear Metro.
According to the attached slides from the London Transport Awards 2011 they have been a success:
http://www.transporttimesevents.co.uk/uploads/London Transport Award - Team Working.pdf
Still suprised that they hadn't brought it in house. Was one of the first things that DB did when they took over (saying that it wasn't too hard to do better than the previous security company employed by Nexus).
I keep checking to see whether they man the barriers at Three Bridges but it seems to always be a proper Southern person with STM at the bottom of the stairs to the platforms.
They have recently moved the barriers so they are outside the subway.
I work on the ELL and we are chronically understaffed at present. STM staff are doing more and more shifts as Lorol seem unwilling to hire more staff. They are generally trained to do everything that normal staff can do except ticket office duties.
Urban Gateline
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We have them at Clapham Junction, they are there for Security mainly, at least 2-3 of them, they walk around the station (doing Magtouch checks sometimes) and stand at the ticket barriers as a visible presence of Security.
Sometimes they do cover the Gateline and check tickets when a shift is uncovered by SWT staff, as SWT staff on the Gateline can't get overtime (silly really as STM get a higher hourly rate!)
I am not sure who directly supervises STM staff...many times it seems to be a free for all as nobody watches them.
Sometimes they do cover the Gateline and check tickets when a shift is uncovered by SWT staff, as SWT staff on the Gateline can't get overtime (silly really as STM get a higher hourly rate!)
I am not sure who directly supervises STM staff...many times it seems to be a free for all as nobody watches them.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
If they have an official contract, STM Security would have had to provide both supervisiory and management "spot" checks at all places where their operatives are working, in order to ensure that the terms of the service provision in the contract is being fully adhered to. All staff being either management or operative must be in possession of a SIA licenced identity card that is to be be on clear view at all times. All such staff have had to have their details cleared by the Criminal Records Bureau as part of the detailed SIA vetting process.Some security staff, dependent upon their placement, have to be made the subject of an Enhanced CRB check.
Since the security industry became SIA administered, matters have to be far more legally enforceable than in pre-SIA days. The SIA can send in their own staff to both the offices of any security company or to any site where emloyees of these companies are placed, in order to establish that compliance with SIA standards are being met. There are onerous penalties involved for any case of non-compliance.
I think that the same legal definitions also applies by the Gangmasters Agency to the companies running gangmaster schemes, as the deaths of the 24 Chinese cockle-pickers in Morecambe bay was the final matter that brought about the total regulatory package that now entails within that industry, noting that these companies now mainly supply labour to the farming community, especially in the vegetable growing areas of the East of England.
STM actually run the RSAS course to Accredit other company's staff now, too. Although a lot of STM staff are RSAS Accredited themselves, chances are that at Three Bridges they wont be Accredited Staff as Southern has their own RSAS staff in the form of Rail Neighbourhood Officers.
I wouldn't go as far as to say even an Enhanced CRB is detailed! Not in comparison to that of Police Force vetting at least. I have to have my family listed on the forms, my financial status as well as all spent and unspent convictions, cautions and Penalty Notices. I even have to tell them if any family member has been cautioned or spoken to by police.Paul said:
From experience, the SIA is a joke and really need to get their act together. When licencing became compulsary, I was led to believe that you would be able to earn a lot more money in security due to being a licenced security officer. The only benefit I've seen is that with a licence you'll ALWAYS be able to find a job! Downside is that renewal costs the same as the initial licence £260(ish?), meaning that basically, all it is is a money making scheme.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
The licence, as issued, is your own personal license, not that of your employer. It is only valid for a period of three years. A new license will then have to be applied for, with new vetting requiements and CRB checks, every three years. There was never any assurance that the SIA license would bring enhanced salaries when introduced. Most of the rumours put around at that time were from security officers on the minimum wage.
The SIA scheme was to ensure that security staff were fully trained in all methods of basic knowledge of fire extinguishers of different types and the knowledge to use each of the various types, evacuation procedures in emergencies and all matters appertaining thereto and the main aspects of Common Law knowledge covering both Civil and Criminal Law that cover Theft, Trespass, Aggravated Trespass, Burglary, Robbery, Assault and Criminal Damage, Knowledge of CCTV systems, Knowledge of intruder alarm systems, Knowledge of fire alarm systems, Report writing to a level that will have to stand up in a Court of Law and Knowledge of Health and Safety in respect of staff under his supervision and also to cover his own personal safety.
The main objectives of a Security Officer are:-
Protection of life
Protection of property and premises
Prevention of loss and waste
Prevention and deterrant of crime.
Management of behavioural situations
I trust the aforementioned gives some details that are covered in the four day standard SIA-approved training course for the basic level requirements of a security officer.
Security staff such as those employed as door staff and other similar positions that require close supervision of the general public are subject to far more stringent training in those particular areas.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
I think Stigy will have a good grasp of what it means to be SIA approved, and work as a security officer, considering he is one Paul.
As Ralph has said, I know all about Security as I've been in the industry to all intents and purposes for 10-years, and obtained an SIA licence when licencing first cam in, in 2005/6 (although they sent my licence to my old address...)? (Not a security officer now, although responsible for the security of trains, stations, passengers and staff). As I'm not a Security Officer now (I'm an Accredited Person), I don't need an SIA licence, and quite frankly I'm glad about that. I don't recall being trained in half of what you mention, especially report writing, and I'm guessing a lot of current Security Officers are the same, as a lot I have seen really haven't had a good enough grasp of the English language to speak on the phone, let alone liase coherently with Emergency Services or write a concise report.
Regarding the salary, it might have been rumours, although not unrealistic expectations given the necessity for an SIA licence. Most jobs require a CRB check these days, and quite frankly, unless you're a convicted sex offender or career criminal in general, you shouldn't have an issue gaining even an Enhanced CRB. I did hear a rumour that the SIA might not be around much longer though?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I too am a licensed holder of a SIA license that was a requirement of the last position that I held in a Senior Managerial position before I retired, which for obvious reasons I will not disclose here, but I had to sit the four-day training course and be fully vetted to the higher level of Enhanced Criminal Record Bureau check with I am pleased to say shows "NONE RECORDED" against:-
Police Records of Convictions, Cautions, Reprimands and Warnings
Information from the list under section 142 of the Education Act 2002
ISA Children's Barred List information
ISA Vulnerable Adults' Barred List information
Other relevant information disclosed at the Chief Police Officer(s) discretion
I retired in March 2010, but my license is valid until 30th June 2012.
I trust that the aforementioned shows that I know exactly what is required of a security officer with a blue badge with a blue stripe down the right and side plus that of a security officer with a blue badge with an orange stripe down the right hand side.
You probably do, but what's your point? Nobody is suggesting otherwise, however, I know of a few Security Officers who think their SIA licence makes them some sort of robocop.
What I said about the training still stands.
Matt Taylor
Established Member
Why are the platform staff letting them do the Magtouch duties? Do they not realise that this is just playing into the hands of those that call for a reduction in station staff?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
From what you have said about the type of security officer that you so well describe in your first paragraph, it is not the training that is at fault (as I did state that I had to attend the four-day training course), as all the same training courses have to be attended by all applicants, but it is the nature of those security officers that is at fault, once they have been fully badged, after acceptance by the SIA. The training course that I attended was fully comprehensive in its remit.
If I had found any knowledge of such officers working under my jurisdiction behaving in such a manner that you have described and had found this indeed to be true, they would be placed upon an immediate suspension, pending a full disciplinary hearing.
What is wrong is the level of the supervision upon these self-same officers by their supervisors in the first instance during "random" checks and then by management level at a disciplinary level. There is always the chance that any SIA accredited and ID card holder member of the SIA of making a "spot" check of any security officer at any time or place during their shift.
You have been a security officer in the past, obviously SIA trained, so you will know exactly the points to which I refer, even though I speak as a former member of a managerial team, who has the responsibility for all my staff. Your own manager would have made exactly the same points that I have made.
railguard
New Member
- Joined
- 10 Sep 2011
- Messages
- 1
I work for EMT and we have then too on our Stns and on our trains and they are a pain!!
Some operate like a private police force and will not even listen to us even though the Guard is incharge of the train! well under the RSSB it is but according to STM they do as they please! as for the company values and I quote
1. Customers
To provide services of the highest quality possible, and greatest value possible, to the Company's client base.
.2. Training
To encourage the training and development of all our staff.
.3. Teamwork
To operate as one team, with mutual understanding and respect for each other.
.4. Quality
Through total commitment to quality standards and efficiency.
.5. Management
To manage the business effectively and efficiently through the promotion and encouragement of individuals.
.6. Excellence
To strive for excellence in everything we do
.7. Profit
To achieve sufficient profit to finance the Company's continued growth
This is a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!! :roll::roll::roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Some operate like a private police force and will not even listen to us even though the Guard is incharge of the train! well under the RSSB it is but according to STM they do as they please! as for the company values and I quote
1. Customers
To provide services of the highest quality possible, and greatest value possible, to the Company's client base.
.2. Training
To encourage the training and development of all our staff.
.3. Teamwork
To operate as one team, with mutual understanding and respect for each other.
.4. Quality
Through total commitment to quality standards and efficiency.
.5. Management
To manage the business effectively and efficiently through the promotion and encouragement of individuals.
.6. Excellence
To strive for excellence in everything we do
.7. Profit
To achieve sufficient profit to finance the Company's continued growth
This is a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!! :roll::roll::roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
We have exactly the same but then again we are a "sister company" of SWT but STM are like a parasite! they will jump in and say "oooh manager Sir I can do that to help you!! and undermine the actual Rail Staff!
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
We have exactly the same but then again we are a "sister company" of SWT but STM are like a parasite! they will jump in and say "oooh manager Sir I can do that to help you!! and undermine the actual Rail Staff!
The remit of SIA trained security in the rail industry is obviously geared to the very specialised requirements thereof. You will have noted the fact that the specific training in rail-related matters with regard to the G4S contract with Northern Rail does appear to leave much to be desired. There have been numerous postings on this forum concerning the shortcomings of G4S as a company employed within the rail industry. Perhaps this too is the case with companies you name in your posting.
I can assure you that being obsequious in the manner you describe ( a la Uriah Heap) is most definately not part of the remit of a SIA-trained security officer. This will be down to the Assignment Instructions issued by the management of the said security company to their front-line staff.
If you look back at some of my recent posts, you will find that I was in management within the security industry (in which I was fully trained) of which our consultancy was the lead company. I really do despair when I hear of such poor standards of site supervision and of security company management.
blacknight
Member
Should not be allowed to cover Gateline full stop should be looking for nearest RMT rep to put stop to that.
What do security know about ticketing if they pass an invalid ticket how can RPI employed by railway then attempt to excess or issue replacement ticket:-x
With respect, a lot of Gateline at Clapham Junction seem more interested in speaking to their mates and letting their mates through ticket or no ticket...Seems ticketing is the last thing on their minds in most cases. Also, the average CSA would know how to check tickets and the ticket types, and some are far better than others, but show them a fake ticket and it would more than likely go unnoticed. I know of one or two CSAs that are really good, but then the vast majority just don't care.
blacknight
Member
Gateline assistant is a mind numbing experience removing interaction between passengers & staff since "checking of ticket" is done by machine, then to make matters worse they give gateline staff little or no training in ticket inspection call me a ludite but IMO it was far better to have a manual gateline to get some interaction with passengers.
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NSEFAN
Established Member
Blacknight said:
Where would the money come from to manually check every single ticket at a gateline? You could do this at quiter stations, but for places like Clapham Junction it's cheaper to get a machine to do the bulk of the work, and have a human to assist in the operation.
blacknight
Member
Might be part self funding from revenue collected from passengers travelling on invalid tickets, can a machine ask for a railcard or check AP ticket is for correct train?. As for checking tickets form an orderly queue we are British after all.
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