Stirling residents to sue over train noise

[Metroland]

Stirling residents living next to a newly opened railway line are claiming millions of pounds in compensation.

Since freight trains began running through the night on the Stirling-Alloa-Kincardine line in 2008, they claim they have had little sleep and that the value of their homes has plummeted.

George Christie, who bought his four-bedroom property as a retirement home, fears his daughters have lost their inheritance. He claims the noise of the hourly freight trains will scare off any buyer.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/102021-stirling-residents-to-sue-over-train-noise/

 

[devon_metro]

Ridiculous.

 

[466.networkers]

Surely because the residents were there before the railway reopened last year, they should get some protective measures or compensation because of the disruptions?

 

[generalvegitable]

its like alot of things these days, I have heard from staff that many residents in Leighton Buzzard have been complaining aout the narow guage railway because the steam gets into their gardens and they don't like it. But in the scots case these services are new, and the Leighton Buzzard was there before the residents, but what will happen is the Leighton Buzzard railway will be removed because of complaints

 

[Metroland]

Well if you wonder why new rail lines are expensive this is the reason. Lots of compensation has already been paid out along that line, hence the cost rises. Meanwhile the roads get away scot free, since the 1950s there has be a tenfold rise in traffic, yet there is no known class action to complain to the car, truck or oil companies about this disruption to public health, noise, accidents and so on. There are complaints about new roads, yes, but very rarely, if ever, increased traffic.

 

[Bittern]

"I'd rather it was stopped"

Too bad. That won't be happening.

 

[merlodlliw]

I live near a quarry, since finished ten years ago,blasting etc was a daily
event, when I bought the house 40 years ago, I was well aware of the
quarry and its blasts, then rates were £39 a year due to noise,dust etc.

I pay £1200 in Council tax now, and if a quarry started near me, I would be
well peed off, it all comes down to not informing the community, example below,
if the rail freight was known to be running 24 hours,the residents should have been told, never mind this tough on you, we are beyond the law stance.

The 13-mile Stirling-Alloa-Kincardine line reopened in 2008 after originally closing in the 1960s. The regeneration of the track cost £85million and provided a rail link to Alloa while easing congestion on the Forth Rail Road Bridge. It also allowed a freight train service to transport coal from the west of Scotland to Longannet power station in Kincardine.

Residents had initially been promised trains would cease at 11pm; however, there is no legal measure preventing the transportation of goods during the night. The power station requires 12 consignments of coal every 24 hours but the residents were never told this.

I dont blame the residents, in this instance they were there first. The coal trains have not just been invented, total fault on the rail side using the transportation of goods regulations,they knew could not be contested, obvious not a word of this from NR before the planning,
it all smells of greed. my opinion of course, but I would be the main protester, if my home
was at risk.

 

[A0]

Well if you wonder why new rail lines are expensive this is the reason. Lots of compensation has already been paid out along that line, hence the cost rises. Meanwhile the roads get away scot free, since the 1950s there has be a tenfold rise in traffic, yet there is no known class action to complain to the car, truck or oil companies about this disruption to public health, noise, accidents and so on. There are complaints about new roads, yes, but very rarely, if ever, increased traffic.

The bit in bold is a bit disingenous really. That kind of 'organic' or unplanned growth is a fact of life.

If a new motorway was being built along the end of your road, as an existing resident you would almost certainly be entitled to some form of compensation for loss of value of your property and noise, disruption etc. The same applies to the railways. As others have pointed out, when most people bought their houses the railway wasn't there. I fail to see why it's unreasonable to take this action if when the residents moved in the railway wasn't there and it's since been rebuilt with the attendant noise.

On the other hand if you buy a house next to a railway line or major road you cannot expect to be compensated for the noise, because it would be obvious to you that noise was highly probable.

 

[Metroland]

Incorrect, they bought their house when the railway was there, at a price which reflects that. The difference is overnight trains, although one of them admits they 'sleep with the window open'. You could equally argue you bought a house next to a road that was quiet, and has become progressively busier, I fail to see the difference.

 

[68000]

The railway was there well before those houses. The railway may not have been live at the time but I fail to see the difference. There was always a chance that the line would reopen for traffic.

 

[route:oxford]

The 13-mile Stirling-Alloa-Kincardine line reopened in 2008 after originally closing in the 1960s.

Not exactly true. The section of the route passing the properties in Causewayhead was definitely in use as a goods line in the 80s.

The "railscot" forum has images of the mollasses trains running to Menstrie in 1988.

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/Alva_Railway/frame.htm

I'm not sure if there were still goods services running into the 90s, I'm sure someone on here will be able to advise.

 

[jopsuk]

Hi! I grew up in Menstrie. I'm pretty sure the molasses trains were running up to around 93/94 (though I may be a little wrong)- had to cross the line to get to primary school, often impeded by the trains. Can't though remember if they stopped before or after I went to secondary school (which would be 95). Trains ran through to Cambus, and reversed to get down the branch to Menstrie.

 

[First class]

Who are "they" actually suing?

Network Rail or the FOC?

 

[87015]

The railway was there well before those houses. The railway may not have been live at the time but I fail to see the difference. There was always a chance that the line would reopen for traffic.

The issue isn't that the line has reopened - its that they were told in the enquiry etc no freight trains after 2300, which NR have decided not to enforce. Lying at a public enquiry is fair game for legal action in this country and many others.

 

[Metroland]

Oh well, let's all sue the highways agency then for increase in traffic and NATs for the increase in air traffic, considering than many of these roads and airports are beyond their design limitations and the goal posts have been moved continuously too, with many hauliers now moving goods at night. I don't see them asking permission of everyone along the route where they run or having to pay compensation.

 

[merlodlliw]

The issue isn't that the line has reopened - its that they were told in the enquiry etc no freight trains after 2300, which NR have decided not to enforce. Lying at a public enquiry is fair game for legal action in this country and many others.

This is the point, NR lied , I note NR did not consult anyone prior to running trains after 11.00p.m.

If it was the case at the inquiry, that NR said no trains after 11.00p.m. then the public inquiry should be reopened. That one point means NR are in the wrong.

I am not aware of Scots law at inquirys, but here in Wales we would dam well
demand a new inquiry. Also if the line was dead for over ten years, why was
an inquiry needed, and the 11.00p.m. should be set in stone be it freight
or passenger traffic, never mind the "well we fooled them attitude" of a few NR
legal types.

 

[me123]

I think it's only fair that they get compensation. They purchased the houses and now have to live next to a very active railway line, which was not expected in most cases. Like it or not, trains are loud and disruptive. Whilst the presence of Alloa station will improve value for some residences, the noise will decrease the value for most if not all houses.

However, I only think that the compensation should be given to those who purchased before the line opened, and before the local residents were consulted about planning and so on. They've had no control over this. People who moved in last month (for example) knew fine well that they're living beside an active railway line, and have to live with that decision.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is the point, NR lied , I note NR did not consult anyone prior to running trains after 11.00p.m.

If it was the case at the inquiry, that NR said no trains after 11.00p.m. then the public inquiry should be reopened. That one point means NR are in the wrong.

If NR did not consult on this, then compensation should be given to all in my opinion. However, I'd like to see the exact wording of this before I commit myself to a definite answer.

Disclaimer: These are my opinions and my opinions only. They are not legally binding and are not based on a knowledge of Scots Law.

 

[Metroland]

I wouldn't be so sure, EWS said

'Mr Bates said in the letter it would be "unfortunate" if residents had been given the impression by the council that there would be no train activity between midnight and 6am but that, without night-time running of trains, Longannet would not be able to meet its need for coal.

"This has always been our requirement and was made known to both Transport Scotland and Network Rail during our many interactions prior to the re-opening of the route,"

If they do get compensation, I would say this will set compensation claims off round the country, this will severely dent any attempt to re-open lines and provide additional threat to rail freight, especially if and when new 84 tonne mega trucks get introduced, which may decimate rail freight anyway. I doubt anyone will get compensation along the roads when they start running or for any additional accidents they cause, I doubt anyone gets it when a new road freight depot opens, a supermarket feeding overnight deliveries. I also doubt when London Airports are expanded, Londoners will receive compensation.

So those supporting the residents should think very carefully about the ramifications of what they are saying and the logic and fairness that should apply across transport, and indeed may well apply in future legal trials.

The road freight industry seems to get away scot free on paying for many of its external costs, indeed this is why railways find it very difficult to make any profits. The same needs to apply to both road and rail and air for that matter. The fact is if road freight paid its full costs (typically they pay 30-70%) a good deal more would shift back to the railways, indeed in the Leeds university transport institute study on surface charges, it was found in general rail freight is the only transport mode that did generally meet its costs.

Here is a report for the EU

http://www.uic.org/html/environnement/cd_external/docs/externalcosts_en.pdf

heres another for the DfT

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/economics/sactra/transportandtheeconomyfullre3148?page=15

 

[merlodlliw]

Thanks metroland, 169 pages.

I would like to see the inquiry report, and if in the inquiry NR said no trains
between 2300 & 0600, as acceptance of reopening the line ,no matter what the power station wanted, then the residents are correct in what they are doing.

Of course buying your homes with the railway running is another matter,but to
those, who attended the inquiry and accepted the result of no trains between
2300 & 0600 as a condition of relopening the line, they deserve compo in this
instance, Netword Rail are in the wrong and bloody well know it, I am not a compo type, but in this instance, I would be.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Funny, isn't it?

If someone were to build a station along there and send passenger trains down it then house prices would skyrocket.

Unfortunately, we do not live in a world where absolutely everyone can be made happy all the time. In this instance, a decision has been made to inconvenience a few for the greater good.

I have read what people have said about tennants being there before trains, but the railway was there long before that, despite not being used. Surely a bit of common sense might suggest that, one day, the railway line "might" be used again. If the line was newly built having never been there before, I would be more understanding.

It is a bit like Montserrat. When the inhabitants of the island built their community on the slopes of Mt. Soufriere, the volcano had been dormant for thousands of years. Suddenly, it became active again and the residents lost pretty much everything. They were given basic provisions by our government to stay alive, but they were initially not allowed to claim asylum in our country, nor were they compensated for their loss.

It is also the same as people who buy a house on a floodplain and then complain when their house is flooded. If something has happened before, there is the chance of it happening again. It is just tough luck, sadly.

 

[Metroland]

Thanks metroland, 169 pages.

I would like to see the inquiry report, and if in the inquiry NR said no trains
between 2300 & 0600, as acceptance of reopening the line ,no matter what the power station wanted, then the residents are correct in what they are doing.

Of course buying your homes with the railway running is another matter,but to
those, who attended the inquiry and accepted the result of no trains between
2300 & 0600 as a condition of relopening the line, they deserve compo in this
instance, Netword Rail are in the wrong and bloody well know it, I am not a compo type, but in this instance, I would be.

So do you agree that other forms of transport must also pay their full costs? I can show you university report and government report from around the world, saying they do not. This is why we have vast problems with pollution, noise and congestion, accidents, social exclusion and health problems.

I agree they should pay up, IF other forms are transport are treated equally. The line was re-opened to get freight off the roads, and these people want to make sure it goes back on again, maybe not intentionally, but that will be the result.

I do not agree the railways should be paying up, and the other forms of transport get away with it, because otherwise we will never tackle any of these problems and you know it, my stance is simply fairness looking at the big picture, that is always what I have tried to convey on this forum. It just seems to me this is an easy target to make some money, they know a railway line is there, nobody has any idea what hours of day it may or may not be used. Having lived next to a railway line with overnight freight, it really isn't an issue, certainly one a fence won't solve.

 

[bengley]

I'd be pleased to have a railway behind my house.

 

[merlodlliw]

Well no matter what we say, NR lied at an inquiry,lied to the people.

Transport Scotland & the Scots Parliament need to sort out NR for
this, but with currupt Politicians all over the place, the small person
will get pushed out.

I agree put more on the rails, we have this silly situation here with the
A55, hundreds of lorrys going Dublin to Dover, should be on the rails.
But in this instance in Scotland NR lied, and I hope NR have to cough up,
a few bonuses from NR fat cats could sort this out.

My stance is the principal that a not for profit monopoly org lied to a public inquiry,

 

[jopsuk]

I'd be pleased to have a railway behind my house.

With big coal trains rumbling past at 3am every night?

I'm taking a wild guess that the main complaints have been from residents of houses built by Causewayhead Road in between the trains to Menstrie ceasing and the reopening of the line.


I do need to correct Metroland- this line was not reopened to get the freight off the roads; rather, it was to get the freight off the conjested Forth Rail Bridge- allowing the use of larger coal wagons in the process.

I doubt a station at Causewayhead would really be a good idea- it isn't hugely far from Stirling Station, and there are a lot of buses along that road.

 

[thefab444]

Merloddywoo.

 

[andy13]

I'd be pleased to have a railway behind my house.

same

 

[Bittern]

Merloddywoo.

This man speaks the truth!

 

[Aussie_Rail]

Could they not have built sound barriers like they did along TGV routes that pass through towns or like they do along FWY's in cities?

 

[merlodlliw]

All due respect to everyone, but it would appear only a couple of us on this thread, are noting that Network Rail actually lied to a formal inquiry set up
via the Scottish Executive,knowing full well they intended to allow 24 hour running of freight traffic.

 

[thefab444]

This man speaks the truth!

Indeed. I was going to start an argument about Merloddywoo's "Location" thing, but I decided not to after being not quite sure of the facts.

In response to Merloddywoo himself, I have noted this... but, without wishing to sound like Yorkie, you are very vocal in your assumption that they were lying. I hope they sue you for libel to help pay out the compensation to all these NIMBYs.