Still not receive decision letter

[joycelinlianhu]

Dear forum,
I have been given a travel irregularities report from LNER on 4/12/2022. I have still not received any letter since then. How long does it usually take for the letter to arrive? I am very anxious.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

You could have to wait for quite a while: if the railway want to take you to court they need to start legal action within six months of the alleged incident, so you could have to wait that long to hear from them. And when you remember that the post is currently in a mess, even if the railway have written to you then the letter may not have got to you yet.

Try to keep calm and don’t worry. But while you wait, make a note of exactly what happened on 4 December in case there’s any argument over the facts.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

The post has been awful recently with many delays reported. In addition strike action at LNER is also likely to slow things down further, along with the Christmas and New Year holidays. Letters typically take a few weeks to arrive but can take up to six months (although this length of time is unusual).

 

[Haywain]

Dear forum,
I have been given a travel irregularities report from LNER on 4/12/2022. I have still not received any letter since then. How long does it usually take for the letter to arrive? I am very anxious.

It is fairly unusual for LNER to issue a TIR with Unpaid Fares Notices being the normal process. If you could outline the circumstances it may help us to advise on what might happen next.

 

[AlterEgo]

Dear forum,
I have been given a travel irregularities report from LNER on 4/12/2022. I have still not received any letter since then. How long does it usually take for the letter to arrive? I am very anxious.

It depends what the alleged contravention is but it can take several months. They may be investigating the matter further.

 

[joycelinlianhu]

I presented my friend’s railway card when inspected. I am a international student and this is my first time traveling with LNER. I asked my friend to buy ticket for me as I am really not familiar with the railway system in UK. I assumed that one just need to show the Railcard who purchased the ticket, so when inspected I just showed my friend’s railcard. Then she asked me to log into my account and I said that I didn’t have a Railcard and my friend purchased the ticket for me…. And she said this is fraud and gave me a TIR……
On the day I immediately purchased a Railcard for myself but have not received any decision letter since then..can I get a lawyer now before they made a decision…I am very anxious due to this long waiting time

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2023 ==

It is fairly unusual for LNER to issue a TIR with Unpaid Fares Notices being the normal process. If you could outline the circumstances it may help us to advise on what might happen next.

do they usually bring people to court?

 

[AlterEgo]

Using someone else’s railcard is a more serious matter.

No reasonable person would be able to use a defence they had no idea they couldn’t use someone else’s card. It has to be purchased, has the holder’s name and the holder’s photo on it (that’s how they know it’s not you!).

I expect LNER are attempting to find out how many times the railcard has been used/the holder has purchased tickets with it and may be in touch with you and the holder separately if they find cause to do so. They will probably initially suspect the card is being passed around several people for illicit use.

It is not worth engaging a lawyer at this stage. Do wait for their letter and post it (with your details redacted) when it arrives.

 

[joycelinlianhu]

Using someone else’s railcard is a more serious matter.

No reasonable person would be able to use a defence they had no idea they couldn’t use someone else’s card. It has to be purchased, has the holder’s name and the holder’s photo on it (that’s how they know it’s not you!).

I expect LNER are attempting to find out how many times the railcard has been used/the holder has purchased tickets with it and may be in touch with you and the holder separately if they find cause to do so. They will probably initially suspect the card is being passed around several people for illicit use.

It is not worth engaging a lawyer at this stage. Do wait for their letter and post it (with your details redacted) when it arrives.

So they will look into other railway companies as well?

 

[AlterEgo]

So they will look into other railway companies as well?

Yes, they are likely to investigate the entire purchase history.

 

[WesternLancer]

So they will look into other railway companies as well?

Welcome - sorry to hear you have had this problem whist studying here in the UK. It can be the case that railway ticketing in the UK is quite complicated and I can appreciate this is not helpful if you are from overseas and are not familiar with it.

Can you state what type of Railcard this involves? What is the name of the Railcard?

They will be likely to look into all the tickets purchased with the Railcard for travel with any train company. It will then potentially be necessary to show which of those tickets were for use by your friend who owned the Railcard (which is OK) and which were for other people.

I would suggest that whilst you wait for the letter you sit down with your friend and make a list of all the times the Railcard has been used to buy tickets, then use a diary to work out which of those occasions were tickets bought for someone other than the Railcard owner (the owner being the person named on the railcard). Then see if you can make a list to help proove that it was not you using those tickets. If your friend can proove that they used the Railcard on all the other times, for example, that will help. Though it is possible that they won't ask about this, but if they do you will be prepared.

You and your friend should also now read the T&Cs for the Railcard concerned on the Railcard website (there are not that many) and be sure you understand them.

As mentioned above, they will not be likely to believe that someone would think that a Railcard in the name of 'Joe Bloggs' can be used to buy discounted tickets for any of their friends and then take the Railcard with them to make it valid. I fear they will suspect this is a case of Railcard fruadulent use, not a misunderstanding of the way Railcards work. However, in the country you are from - does such a system exist? ie you can buy a Railcard and then use it for other people's tickets and lend them the Railcard? If so when you have to reply to LNER perhaps you could explain that by way of an explanation of your error. But you should expect to name the country, name the Railway operator in the country, and proove it eg by way of say a link to such a Railcard in that country. They might then perhaps give you the benefit of the doubt to some extent. For example if you a student from China say, do Chinese Railways have Railcards that work like this, if so you could explain that.

As you are an international student it would be wise for you to ask for some advice from your Student Union welfare office or your university / college International Student office. I think they will be able to help you with this too.

They may also be able to advise you regarding getting a lawyer as they may have a relationship with a reliable legal firm who give their students some free legal help. But you may not need to get a Lawyer/Solicitor yet.

At the moment I think you just have to wait for the letter, prepare for it by doing the above things, and then head back here for advice on how to respond to the letter. Hopefully you gave them a UK address where you will be able to receive post and that you can look out for this post as you will need to reply quickly when they write to you. People here can advise you on how to best reply to that letter when you get it.

In the meantime try not to worry too much about this, but it will be important for you to get some good help and advice.

Also head back here for advice when you need it.

 

[AlterEgo]

“This is how it works in my country” is not likely to be a wise defence. Ultimately it’s a railcard with someone else’s name, which someone else bought, with someone else’s photo on it. No point asking what sort of railcard - it’s one with a photo, that’s how the OP’s been caught.

Would you, even visiting a foreign country, claim a discount using someone else’s card with their name and photo on it and believe you just had to carry it? What’s the photo for, do you think? It’s an open and shut case of fraudulent use of a railcard and LNER won’t be naive enough to think it has happened only the once.

It is not clever for us to invite posters to use mitigation they themselves don’t introduce.

There are also potential consequences for the railcard holder if they have been allowing it to be passed around in a fare evasion “ring”. I’m afraid this one has the potential to get messy. LNER rarely appear on this part of the forum and I suggest the delay in receiving correspondence from them is because they are investigating the matter.

 

[Haywain]

“This is how it works in my country” is not likely to be a wise defence. Ultimately it’s a railcard with someone else’s name, which someone else bought, with someone else’s photo on it. No point asking what sort of railcard - it’s one with a photo, that’s how the OP’s been caught.

Would you, even visiting a foreign country, claim a discount using someone else’s card with their name and photo on it and believe you just had to carry it? What’s the photo for, do you think? It’s an open and shut case of fraudulent use of a railcard and LNER won’t be naive enough to think it has happened only the once.

It's difficult to believe that any sort of photo ID can be considered legitimately transferable, either in the UK or any other country.

It is not clever for us to invite posters to use mitigation they themselves don’t introduce.

Agreed.

There are also potential consequences for the railcard holder if they have been allowing it to be passed around in a fare evasion “ring”.

At the very least, it is highly unlikely that they will be getting the railcard back.

 

[ashkeba]

It's difficult to believe that any sort of photo ID can be considered legitimately transferable, either in the UK or any other country.

Some photo IDed discount cards do only apply at purchase time. After that, the purchased service can be used by whoever you give the coupon to, as long as it isn't reported stolen. But I cannot think of a transport discount card like that.

 

[Titfield]

Some photo IDed discount cards do only apply at purchase time. After that, the purchased service can be used by whoever you give the coupon to, as long as it isn't reported stolen. But I cannot think of a transport discount card like that.

Can you give some examples of this?

 

[WesternLancer]

“This is how it works in my country” is not likely to be a wise defence. Ultimately it’s a railcard with someone else’s name, which someone else bought, with someone else’s photo on it. No point asking what sort of railcard - it’s one with a photo, that’s how the OP’s been caught.

These are fair points to make, but an explanation does not necessarily have to be a defense. But in anything the OP says, they should say the truth.

 

[Haywain]

Some photo IDed discount cards do only apply at purchase time. After that, the purchased service can be used by whoever you give the coupon to, as long as it isn't reported stolen. But I cannot think of a transport discount card like that.

But not when it requires carrying the card to verify the ticket.

 

[joycelinlianhu]

I also wonder does the fact that I purchased the Railcard on the day help with the case.

 

[Haywain]

I also wonder does the fact that I purchased the Railcard on the day help with the case.

It does no more than indicate that you might not repeat the offence.

 

[WesternLancer]

I also wonder does the fact that I purchased the Railcard on the day help with the case.

It is helpful because when you reply to them it allows you to say that you took immediate steps to ensure the issue did not happen again. So it helps to show you have learned what was wrong and will not do it again. It won't resolve the problem before, but it may make you chances of being offered a settlement rather than court action a little bit more likely.

 

[joycelinlianhu]

Hey guys I just received the letter. Does it mean out of court settlement?

 

[AlterEgo]

Hey guys I just received the letter. Does it mean out of court settlement?

Yes. Pay it immediately and it will be the end of any action against you.

 

[joycelinlianhu]

Yes. Pay it immediately and it will be the end of any action against you.

Thank you!

 

[ashkeba]

But not when it requires carrying the card to verify the ticket.

Yes, that is a difference. The chain restaurants and hotels in which I have used meal and room tickets bought with staff discount photo ID, did not require the ID card to be shown at time of use. It would make little sense. That should be the alarm, not only that the discount card has photo on it.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hey guys I just received the letter. Does it mean out of court settlement?

Hi - yes, that is it. Under the circs I think you have been very lucky - so make the payment as @AlterEgo advises and keep a record / receipt of your payment safely in case anything goes wrong with that (not that that is very likely).

Of course the sum is higher than it might otherwise be as it looks like you were travelling 1st class

They will now have retained a record of your details so you need to make sure that going forwards you always have the correct railway ticket whenever you travel by train, if in doubt ask staff at the station before you get on a train if you are ever uncertain. This is because if a problem happens again they (or another railway company - they can all check) may not be so prepared to accept that it was some sort of mistake. As you now have your own Railcard be careful to check it is valid for use on the trains that you need to use it on, although that should not be too difficult to check.

 

[spag23]

As you now have your own Railcard be careful to check it is valid for use on the trains that you need to use it on

And set a reliable reminder/alarm of the date you need to renew it; an unnoticed expiry being a common cause of problems reported here.