Still A Coal Allowance For French TVG Drivers !

[Pyreneenguy]

It's election time here in France and all sorts of hyperbole are circulating to enrich the debate !

I got this one, this morning from a friend ( original in French translation with Google. Sourse : a personal e-mail)

Comparison between French and German railwaymen. What if we put everything flat?
The truth about TGV drivers ... is it not mind-boggling.?

A TGV PARIS to Frankfurt
The French driver 4000/5000 euros per month (coal bonus (!!!) included)
- 25-hour week - 50-year retirement.
+ Free transport advantages for life

-------------------------------------------------- ------------

The same TGV that makes Frankfurt Paris

Driven by a German TGV driver salary of 1500 to 2500 euros,
Working hours 41 hours per week, retirement at 67 years.
YES .... 41 HOURS PER WEEK AND RETIRED AT 67 YEARS.

Stop ****ing our mouths at the SNCF


SOURCE .... Emission Yves CALVI it's in the air

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The vase overflows WITH the SNCF which plays against France and the French

With the help of corrupt trade unionists



YOU MUST DIFFUSE THIS EMAIL TO ALL YOUR RELATIONSHIPS.

The differences in working conditions and renumeration between the German and French drivers are enormous, probably says tons on why France is lagging behind economically.

What I'd like to know is whether or not UK TOC's still give perks like a "coal allowance" ( prime charbon). Just the possibility to retire at 50 seems out of this World. There are often calls for these unjustified advantages to be done away with but there are few politicians brave enough to take on the highly unionised railway workers.

 

[Lrd]

25 hour week? That can't be right?!

 

[daikilo]

There was a detailed "debunking" article in Le Monde in 2014 concerning SNCF drivers pay. It states that the "prime de charbon/coal allowance" ha not existed since the 1970s and would appear to show that the take-home pay of TGV drivers was generally well below the values quoted.
http://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs...ndes-urbaines-de-la-sncf_4439497_4355770.html
To be honest, I could not deduce how many hours they were actually on duty although the baseline appears to be 35 hours/week (but not clear how this translates into productive time on job).
Note that PAYE income tax does not exist in France, yet.

I have no idea of the take-home pay of ICE drivers.

 

[Pyreneenguy]

25 hour week? That can't be right?!

It can be !

Drivers can retire at 50 if they have 25 years service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't believe DB pay anywhere near as well as UK operators.

 

[Pyreneenguy]

There was a detailed "debunking" article in Le Monde in 2014 concerning SNCF drivers pay. It states that the "prime de charbon/coal allowance" ha not existed since the 1970s and would appear to show that the take-home pay of TGV drivers was generally well below the values quoted.
http://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs...ndes-urbaines-de-la-sncf_4439497_4355770.html
To be honest, I could not deduce how many hours they were actually on duty although the baseline appears to be 35 hours/week (but not clear how this translates into productive time on job).
Note that PAYE income tax does not exist in France, yet.

I have no idea of the take-home pay of ICE drivers.

This kind of message is your typical electioneering garbage, distributed by the far-right. The "Prime Charbon" was done away with in 1974 but you can be sure the drivers got some equivalent compensation ! At that time France enjoyed full-employment and people were probably not queuing up to be train drivers !

 

[squizzler]

I'm sure I remember hearing a very similar "meme" put around with relation to the GTR dispute - and conclusively debunked. Does anybody remember what that was? Maybe it crossed the channel.

A very cunning wheeze for the PR concerned, as such tropes not give the impression that trades unions are craven in their demands, but also implicitly paint the railways as an inherently old fashioned industry belonging in the steam age. I'm not a sentimentalist and believe in throwing out rules that are past their time, but such self-evident drivel as this article should be treated with the contempt it deserves.

 

[FordFocus]

25 hour week? That can't be right?!

In our next pay deal I'll be sure to mention this to our union representatives as something to aspire to as the common public perception is that continent has a better system than the UK.

Obviously any pay deal will need to be discussed at length on this forum

 

[Pyreneenguy]

I'm sure I remember hearing a very similar "meme" put around with relation to the GTR dispute - and conclusively debunked. Does anybody remember what that was? Maybe it crossed the channel.

A very cunning wheeze for the PR concerned, as such tropes not give the impression that trades unions are craven in their demands, but also implicitly paint the railways as an inherently old fashioned industry belonging in the steam age. I'm not a sentimentalist and believe in throwing out rules that are past their time, but such self-evident drivel as this article should be treated with the contempt it deserves.

As you say, very cunning ! There is no shortage of people more than willing to believe and propagate such untruths.

You only have to look at the Brexit result

 

[TheEdge]

I don't believe DB pay anywhere near as well as UK operators.

They don't, as a UK depot driver I'm already well in the bracket of DB mainline drivers, and paid (pre tax at current exchange rates) more than a DB mainline driver with 10 years experience!

That (not Brexit) has been the main I've ruled out trying to work for DB

 

[6Gman]

I'm sure I remember hearing a very similar "meme" put around with relation to the GTR dispute - and conclusively debunked. Does anybody remember what that was? Maybe it crossed the channel.

Wasn't there a claim that PNBs were to give footplate staff a break from shovelling coal?

 

[daikilo]

I tried to post earlier with links but must have failed, anyway, this thing has been debunked on several occasions since 2005. In addition, there is no identifiable trace of Yves Calvi or C dans l'Air having been involved in broadcasting it (either the original or the debunk).

 

[TheEdge]

Wasn't there a claim that PNBs were to give footplate staff a break from shovelling coal?

Yes, that odious DfT bloke claimed drivers still get firebreaks during his speech in Croydon.

 

[daikilo]

This kind of message is your typical electioneering garbage, distributed by the far-right. The "Prime Charbon" was done away with in 1974 but you can be sure the drivers got some equivalent compensation ! At that time France enjoyed full-employment and people were probably not queuing up to be train drivers !

Pyreneenguy, are you accusing me of being far-right? I am just trying to point out that your original post should never have been posted as it is not based on fact, is not recent and in addition includes an apparently incorrect attribution.

 

[158747]

Yes, that odious DfT bloke claimed drivers still get firebreaks during his speech in Croydon.

He also said that they are paid £60000 per year for working a three day week!

 

[Pyreneenguy]

Pyreneenguy, are you accusing me of being far-right? I am just trying to point out that your original post should never have been posted as it is not based on fact, is not recent and in addition includes an apparently incorrect attribution.

No, no, no ! The "message" I refer to is the original one sent to me by e-mail !

Apologies for any confusion that I may have caused !

 

[Pyreneenguy]

He also said that they are paid £60000 per year for working a three day week!

I remember another "3 day week" ! Waiting for a 502 at an unlit Liverpool Exchange due to power cuts when I was a chorister!

 

[AndrewE]

Wasn't there a claim that PNBs were to give footplate staff a break from shovelling coal?

Even if that was the original reason (and it wasn't, as double-manned turns, i,e those with a fireman or later a secondman, didn't get a PNB) I would still rather a driver had a chance to get a break, some food and have a pee during the course of his working day, especially if I'm travelling by train!

 

[signallerscot]

Would anyone care to explain what exactly this coal allowance/Prime Charbon is or was?

Bear in mind that signalmen in the uk were still being paid walking time (i.e. paid for the theoretical time it would take to walk between their 'home station' and a remote signal box) and lodging (if the walking time/distance exceeded a certain threshold) as recently as 1994...

 

[Pyreneenguy]

Would anyone care to explain what exactly this coal allowance/Prime Charbon is or was?

The "Prime Charbon" was a "bonus" paid to S.N.C.F steam locomotive drivers and firemen. It was calculated on the theoretical consumption of the locomotive on a given trip.

If the driver/fireman manged to be more economical they got a bonus. The "bonus" wasn't in the form of money but coal, but was replaced by money towards the end of steam traction.