Stevenage platform 5

[Mcq]

WL1978 signal can only show a yellow or green aspect and is effectively a repeater or distant signal for WL 1974 signal, hence why it doesn’t show a colour on the map. As a consequence of this, K940, the starter signal for platform 5 and K660 on platform 4 can only show red or green. Hope this helps.

Many thanks St Paddy - I now understand that completely. Older and wiser!
Is there a difference between one of those and the old rotating black bar on a white circle - other than the obvious - excuse the non tech terms!

 

[swt_passenger]

Many thanks St Paddy - I now understand that completely. Older and wiser!
Is there a difference between one of those and the old rotating black bar on a white circle - other than the obvious - excuse the non tech terms!

“Repeater” as in another name for a distant signal, is a completely separate thing to a “banner repeater“. The latter is all about overcoming signal sighting issues, for example if platform curvature or canopy prevents a signal being easily seen at the normal sighting distance.

 

[edwin_m]

"Distant" is now preferred to "Repeater" for the signal that only shows yellow or green, probably to avoid this kind of confusion.

 

[swt_passenger]

"Distant" is now preferred to "Repeater" for the signal that only shows yellow or green, probably to avoid this kind of confusion.

Indeed, and searching the forum for the term “repeater” shows loads of discussions about the terminology going back over many years...

 

[Mcq]

I must start by saying - please excuse my ignorance, then by asking 'Admin' please not to delete this as a signals discussion, because I am directly trying to understand the actions of signal 1978.
As I understand it from you good folks above, 1978 can be either yellow or green, is not controlled independently from York ROC and simply slavishly repeats 1974.
Such that 1974 red = 1978 amber, 1974 not red = 1978 green - similar to LTU Fog repeater signals.
Isn't that the same action (though different display and mechanics) to banner signals?
Doesn't an 1978 yellow and the horizontal banner mean the next signal is at stop so proceed with caution, whereas 1978 green (or a diagonal banner) mean the next signal is not at stop?
I use the expression 'not at stop' for a signal that may be at yellow, double yellow or green.
Would I be right in assuming that there is not a train detector by signal 1978 and that this is because it simply repeats 1974 - which is presumably why there is no 'black rectangle on the OpenTrainTimes map.
Please treat me gently

 

[plugwash]

My understanding is that the difference is in the purpose and hence the placement.

A banner repeater is fairly close to the signal it repeats and exists to fix sighting problems.

A distant is much further from the signal it repeats and exists to give trains time to slow down before they reach the stop signal.

 

[Mcq]

Ah Plugwash - that's very helpful.
So both function in the same way as per my description above, but relative placement is determined by the purpose.

 

[St. Paddy]

I must start by saying - please excuse my ignorance, then by asking 'Admin' please not to delete this as a signals discussion, because I am directly trying to understand the actions of signal 1978.
As I understand it from you good folks above, 1978 can be either yellow or green, is not controlled independently from York ROC and simply slavishly repeats 1974.
Such that 1974 red = 1978 amber, 1974 not red = 1978 green - similar to LTU Fog repeater signals.
Isn't that the same action (though different display and mechanics) to banner signals?
Doesn't an 1978 yellow and the horizontal banner mean the next signal is at stop so proceed with caution, whereas 1978 green (or a diagonal banner) mean the next signal is not at stop?
I use the expression 'not at stop' for a signal that may be at yellow, double yellow or green.
Would I be right in assuming that there is not a train detector by signal 1978 and that this is because it simply repeats 1974 - which is presumably why there is no 'black rectangle on the OpenTrainTimes map.
Please treat me gently

No idea about detection at Langley Jn but i can confirm that a similar arrangement applies in Ponsborne tunnel between Bayford and Cuffley Due to its length, they didn’t want a red aspect in the tunnel, so they only show yellow and green and also have an ‘R’ suffix to denote repeater. They also return from green to yellow straight away after passing them, so are detected. Moorgate tunnels also use this type of signalling between Drayton Park and Moorgate with all repeater signals having an ‘R’ suffix. It’s also worth noting that, prior to the resignalling between Hertford and Langley Jn a few years ago, the whole line was signalled in this manner.

 

[Mcq]

Hi malc-c from your excellent collection of videos and pictures - can you tell if signal 1978 has an R for repeater on it - even more exciting can you see if there is a train detector mechanism on the track approximately by the signal - many thanks.

 

[edwin_m]

Hi malc-c from your excellent collection of videos and pictures - can you tell if signal 1978 has an R for repeater on it - even more exciting can you see if there is a train detector mechanism on the track approximately by the signal - many thanks.

Previous practice was for a repeater to have the same number as the signal it repeated, with an R suffix. However current practice is to give it a number of its own without a suffix.

 

[Mcq]

Thanks for being so helpful - so what is 1978 now might have been 1974 (R) with earlier nomenclature

 

[Class315]

Hi malc-c from your excellent collection of videos and pictures - can you tell if signal 1978 has an R for repeater on it - even more exciting can you see if there is a train detector mechanism on the track approximately by the signal - many thanks.

WL1978 does not have a R on the signal ID Plate, As it's a distance signal it only shows a Yellow or Green, If WL1978 displays a yellow, you're checked down to a red at WL1974 which will display a main and a Position 1 over Langley South Junction, which routes services over the 20mph lead. If 1978 displays a Green, 1974 Will show a green and trains will proceed in the Up Direction on the down Hertford at 60, prior to being routed with a main + position 1 at WL1970 at 50 over Bragbury Junction. Hope this helps!

 

[Mcq]

Thanks malc -c I knew you'd know

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

if it wasn’t for the notorious leisure park clamping.

Private clamping has been illegal for 8 years now. So is this a council controlled car park or are there cowboys out in force?

 

[Fred26]

Private clamping has been illegal for 8 years now. So is this a council controlled car park or are there cowboys out in force?

It's a private car park. They don't clamp anymore.

 

[TheHSRailFan]

nothing really new or that much of an update but ORR have authorised the turnback

https://twitter.com/railandroad/status/1288083441074999297

We have now authorised Platform 5 at Stevenage Station and the new associated permanent way on the Down Hertford line. This will allow for an increase in services, as well as help with improving future reliability and resilience.

 

[bramling]

It's a private car park. They don't clamp anymore.

I think it’s now just spies waiting to watch anyone leave the car park on foot then ticket straight in the post.

The clamping was very notorious at one point. I know quite a few people caught by it. To be fair they no doubt have to be careful to avoid commuter parking (less so town centre parking as most people use Tesco’s for that!), however based on the numbers of horror stories it seems things have always been rather heavy-handed, and not what one normally expects in such a place.

 

[Hadders]

I think it’s now just spies waiting to watch anyone leave the car park on foot then ticket straight in the post.

The clamping was very notorious at one point. I know quite a few people caught by it. To be fair they no doubt have to be careful to avoid commuter parking (less so town centre parking as most people use Tesco’s for that!), however based on the numbers of horror stories it seems things have always been rather heavy-handed, and not what one normally expects in such a place.

Always seems to be at least one spy sitting in a van waiting to catch out the unaware.

Back in the day over 100 cars were clamped in one day, made the Daily Hate.

I think there's a planning condition attached to the car park to the effect that it can't be used for railway station parking. It would be ideal as a station car park because it is practically empty during the day, with it only becoming busy in the evenings.

 

[malc-c]

Thanks malc -c I knew you'd know

Actually, I had nothing to do with that... the info came first hand from a driver

With regards to the Leisure Park car park, it's privately owned and they have always been very quick to issue tickets. The area is packed with CCTV which used to direct "wardens" to any car where the camera operators see anyone cross the threshold of where the car park joins the footbridge to the station. You used to get a ticket stuck to your window, but I believe it's now similar to system used at airports where your car is photographed and the ticket issued via the postal system.

From information that was given at the time of my site visit, the company who owns the retail park were not very helpful. The area that was fenced off the weekend the bridge and steps were delivered and craned into place cost Spencers a fortune. "Extortionate" was the phrase that was used when they negotiated the "short term leasing" of the car park for the period.

 

[Mcq]

Malc -c - I thought it was time to praise the messenger instead of blame him

 

[Bald Rick]

I think it’s now just spies waiting to watch anyone leave the car park on foot then ticket straight in the post.

The clamping was very notorious at one point. I know quite a few people caught by it. To be fair they no doubt have to be careful to avoid commuter parking (less so town centre parking as most people use Tesco’s for that!), however based on the numbers of horror stories it seems things have always been rather heavy-handed, and not what one normally expects in such a place.

Yep I was had there, about 15 years ago. But the clamper chap was really nice! Even though I’d called him at about 1am, and he’d clearly been in bed.

 

[TheHSRailFan]

Does anyone know when the first passenger train is in on Sunday? RTT and Railcam data isn't helping much thanks to NR api

 

[Fred26]

Does anyone know when the first passenger train is in on Sunday? RTT and Railcam data isn't helping much thanks to NR api

It arrives 0854.

 

[Hadders]

Platform 5 is due to open tomorrow but does anyone know if any passenger services are going to use it?

Everything in RTT for tomorrow shows as platform 4 which is the normal position for Sundays. Platform 5 only shows from Monday.

 

[class717]

Well I would assume so, just because they're advertising it so much. I've seen station posters saying Stevenage platform 5 in use from Sunday 2nd August at Hornsey Station for example. Why would they advertise the date if it's not going to be used by passenger services then, when it's already being used for empty movements.

 

[edwin_m]

Well I would assume so, just because they're advertising it so much. I've seen station posters saying Stevenage platform 5 in use from Sunday 2nd August at Hornsey Station for example. Why would they advertise the date if it's not going to be used by passenger services then, when it's already being used for empty movements.

Is the advertising more about the fact that services to Stevenage are resuming after a long gap? I haven't seen the wording of the posters but is it more to tell people that, and also to tell people that they have to go to P5 which is a bit more difficult to get to. Other than that reason, the average punter isn't going to care that it's using a new platform.

 

[TheHSRailFan]

It would be false advertising if it were come to tomorrow and say "oh yeah it's still closed" unless there is some emergency engineering works going on along the stretch of line to platform 5. They have heavily advertised and they would have the DFT up all over. I know the people of Hertford would really get angry if it where to happen

 

[whoosh]

Hi malc-c from your excellent collection of videos and pictures - can you tell if signal 1978 has an R for repeater on it - even more exciting can you see if there is a train detector mechanism on the track approximately by the signal - many thanks.

It doesn't have an 'R' on it, but it does have a white triangle on black background on the signal number plate, like this one:

http://www.railsigns.uk/info/sigid1/pic_delta.jpg

That denotes a 'distant' or 'repeater' (but not a banner repeater!) signal.

 

[Mcq]

Hi whoosh - thanks very much indeed for information

 

[Hadders]

Is the advertising more about the fact that services to Stevenage are resuming after a long gap? I haven't seen the wording of the posters but is it more to tell people that, and also to tell people that they have to go to P5 which is a bit more difficult to get to. Other than that reason, the average punter isn't going to care that it's using a new platform.

Monday to Saturday trains (except very early/late ones) have been replaced by a bus for the last year or so but on Sundays a full service has run throughout the P5 construction work because with fewer trains operating on Sundays there is sufficient time to reverse the Hertford trains in platform 4.

So to summarise, the train full train service can operate tomorrow without using platform 5, as it has done on Sundays throughout the building works. Platform 5 may well open but trains might not use it.

Anyone got any ideas if Platform 5 will be used tomorrow or will we need to wait for Monday?