Step-free access: Lifts vs Ramps

[GingerSte]

From https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...5977/design-standards-accessible-stations.pdf (Page 149, Section P1.1)...

Some ambulant-disabled people have difficulty using ramps, so a ramp should not be the only approach to the station.

(It then references to BS 8300:5.8.)

 

[OneOffDave]

Stations have safe refuges (usually, but don't have to be, platform end areas) where people can wait rather than evacuate onto the street.

I'm not sure I'd like to be stuck on a platform end for a couple of hours in the winter. Wheelchair users are more susceptible to hypothermia as they don't generate heat by the small movements that ambulant people make when just standing around. I'm sure 99% of them don't meet the appropriate standards for use as refuges during evacuation and also refuges are only meant to be temporary staging points during the evacuation process.

 

[BRX]

Perhaps you are unaware of the legislation and the design requirements for ramps and stairs. Perhaps you should look them out.

No, I'm very familiar with it as I design ramps and stairs as part of my regular job. And looking at the mess at Gomshall, my intuition is that there would have been a better solution.

 

[BRX]

The thing that does concern me with platforms with just lift access is fire evacuation. Most of the lifts aren't firefighting lifts so would be unable to be used. I've not had a reasonable explanation as to how they'd do it

Not entirely unlike any multistorey building, where you will only have lift and stairs. In that case, wheelchair refuges are provided within the protected firefighting stair, the idea being that anyone who can't use the stair can wait there for assistance.

 

[DarloRich]

No, I'm very familiar with it as I design ramps and stairs as part of my regular job. And looking at the mess at Gomshall, my intuition is that there would have been a better solution.

I don't know it intimately but do know some of the challenges of fitting the required structures into the available land, within the available cost and within the available installation windows.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not entirely unlike any multistorey building, where you will only have lift and stairs. In that case, wheelchair refuges are provided within the protected firefighting stair, the idea being that anyone who can't use the stair can wait there for assistance.

But a lot safer, as in the railway case the refuge area is usually outdoors, at ground level and not near anything that burns.

I would not like being in such a refuge somewhere like Grenfell Tower because I would justifiably feel unsafe. Other than being cold, I wouldn't feel unsafe at the far end of a platform even if the station building was on fire.

 

[Joe D]

There used to be a barrow crossing somewhere west of Salisbury (templecombe?) as the only other option were stairs. I believe trains now leave from the westbound platform in both directions removing the need for it. Certainly on 3rd rail lines it would be very risky.

Yes Templecombe had one, and it is the reason for the platform changes in 2012 -- but it's a bit more complicated than that.

Because the track had been singled, and the road bridge just outside the station rebuilt precluding moving the track, they couldn't move over to the westbound. Instead they built a new platform over the remains of the westbound formation.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...n#/media/File:Templecombe_Railway_Station.jpg

It was presumably prompted by the line being resignalled shortly before. Previously Templecombe needed permanent staff in the signal box anyway; afterwards, the crossing was the only thing to keep full time staff there.

Which is all to say: this doesn't sound like a likely solution for "quiet rural stations" if it needs staffing.

 

[OneOffDave]

But a lot safer, as in the railway case the refuge area is usually outdoors, at ground level and not near anything that burns.

I would not like being in such a refuge somewhere like Grenfell Tower because I would justifiably feel unsafe. Other than being cold, I wouldn't feel unsafe at the far end of a platform even if the station building was on fire.

In multistorey buildings, refuges aren't places to wait for assistance, they are to wait for the mass of evacuating people to pass so that someone who takes time to evacuate. It's not just a case of feeling cold, it's a significant risk of hypothermia. To be classed as refuges they also need two way communication with the control point for the building.

 

[Mojo]

Locally (to me) in Abbey Wood, a few people are loudly complaining on social media that the new Abbey Wood station that opened a couple of weeks ago has no ramps to give step-free access to platforms. Instead, there is a single lift to each platform. The main argument being used by the complainants is that if this single lift fails, wheel-chair-bound people wishing to use the station will be stuck - and on this basis they are arguing that a ramp should've been provided, since a ramp cannot fail.

I don't think you're allowed to say that anymore

I do agree with the nature of the complaint however to an extent; if there is the physical space for a ramp to be delivered, and it can be delivered for the same or cheaper, then a ramp should be the first port of call. In addition to the concerns about the lift failing, it is probably more usable for more people and avoids the need to wait for a lift, particularly if there is a queue which there can sometimes be.

 

[BRX]

In multistorey buildings, refuges aren't places to wait for assistance,

Yes they are - someone in a wheelchair has no other way to get out, other than with assistance. Also, they are sized so as to have space for a wheelchair.

 

[DarloRich]

In multistorey buildings, refuges aren't places to wait for assistance, they are to wait for the mass of evacuating people to pass so that someone who takes time to evacuate.

Yes they are, at least in the plan - in the absence of a fire lift the building evacuation plan should ensure the person who cant manage the stairs goes to the refuge, waits there and is rescued from that refuge by professionals. Those with special requirements should be identified and a personal evacuation plan created. All good in theory. I have my doubts about what would happen if the building were rapidly turning into an inferno!