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Steam trains Russia-North Korea

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deltic

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When reading this BBC article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c207gzprr33o on China-North Korean relations I was surprised by this quote

The whistle of a train interrupts the tourist chatter, and a steam engine pulling a long line of freight carriages slowly chugs across the railway bridge from Russia to North Korea. It stops in front of a Korean sign facing China which reads: “Towards a new victory!
The train would have been seen from a distance - could the journalist have mistaken dirty diesel exhaust for smoke from a steam engine - they would have been some distance away or would freight trains on this route really still be hauled by a steam locomotive? As far as I can see on-line neither country has any steam operations except for enthusiast specials.
 
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Vespa

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When reading this BBC article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c207gzprr33o on China-North Korean relations I was surprised by this quote


The train would have been seen from a distance - could the journalist have mistaken dirty diesel exhaust for smoke from a steam engine - they would have been some distance away or would freight trains on this route really still be hauled by a steam locomotive? As far as I can see on-line neither country has any steam operations except for enthusiast specials.

I've been to North Korea and I've noticed they use a lot of hand me downs stuff from other countries, they have ex Berlin underground train sets, in the provinces on my way from Pyongyang to Dandong I've seen provisions made for steam locos so it's still used, what the journalist reported is shunting moves from one railway to another before handing over to a mainline loco
 

Calthrop

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This is fascinating -- it was certainly long reckoned, in the not-very-distant past -- backed up by the odd tantalising "encounter" -- that North Korea's railways had some steam locos in genuine commercial use; but said country, must always have been one of the world's least-favourable / possible for foreigners to wander around in ad lib, trying to discover things. There took place in past decades, some actual organised railway-enthusiast tours in NK -- the one-time undertaking To Europe For Steam was a prominent "player" therein; but those in control in that land, totally "call the tune" vis-a-vis all such things: from reports of these tours, it would appear that the steam action very much revolved around specials laid on for the groups -- using steam locos which also ran in genuine everyday commercial service, but witnessing of those everyday doings was not "on the menu". It would appear that such happenings likely still occur -- as per @Vespa above, seemingly in a highly specialised situation.

There comes to mind, that there is presumably a matter of break-of-gauge between Russia (1520mm), and Korea ("four-eight-and-a-half"); one wonders quite how that is handled, for freight traffic -- the "steam factor" perhaps involved there?.

Whimsically -- with North Korea's notoriety for all manner of sinister and outlandish goings-on: the notion crosses the mind, of "mad scientists / thought police" there, having developed who-knows-what scary techniques to achieve their malign ends: could they have perhaps been messing with the journalist's head so that he thought he was hearing / seeing a steam loco, when in fact it was just a boring diesel...?
 
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sh24

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I visited NK 20 years ago and there certainly was infrastructure suitable for steam that looked used. No sign of actually locos of course, but as foreigners were restricted solely to the Beijing train it would have been easy to stage manage appearances. Given coal is readily available in the DPRK and diesel isn't, it certainly makes sense for steam to be used.
 
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Gag Halfrunt

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could the journalist have mistaken dirty diesel exhaust for smoke from a steam engine - they would have been some distance away

The North Korean railways have various types of "hood unit" diesel locomotives with a cab at one end, including a number of Soviet classes grouped into the 500 series. This class includes broad gauge locomotives used on the dual gauge line between Rajin and the Russian border, which is what the reporter was seeing. Because of the distinct cab structure, they might be mistaken for steam locomotives at a distance.


Russian ТЭМ1. Some North Korean units wear the same livery.
 

Calthrop

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The North Korean railways have various types of "hood unit" diesel locomotives with a cab at one end, including a number of Soviet classes grouped into the 500 series. This class includes broad gauge locomotives used on the dual gauge line between Rajin and the Russian border, which is what the reporter was seeing. Because of the distinct cab structure, they might be mistaken for steam locomotives at a distance.
The reporter does mention "the whistle of a train" -- as opposed to "hoot" or whatever; but am likely engaging in wishful thinking here -- non-railway-enthusiasts are renownedly slapdash / imprecise / poetic-license-y about such things...
 

nanstallon

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This reminds me of the early 1970s, when the USSR strenuously denied that they still had any steam.
 

Calthrop

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Comes to mind, the old thing from the Soviet Union -- "Ivan, you told me that you were going to Minsk; so I reckoned that obviously that was to put me off the scent, and you were really going to Pinsk; and then you went to Minsk anyway. I can't believe a thing you say !"
 

Shimbleshanks

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When reading this BBC article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c207gzprr33o on China-North Korean relations I was surprised by this quote


The train would have been seen from a distance - could the journalist have mistaken dirty diesel exhaust for smoke from a steam engine - they would have been some distance away or would freight trains on this route really still be hauled by a steam locomotive? As far as I can see on-line neither country has any steam operations except for enthusiast specials.
You beat me to it - just started a thread with the same quote and asking the same question about diesel clag!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

This is fascinating -- it was certainly long reckoned, in the not-very-distant past -- backed up by the odd tantalising "encounter" -- that North Korea's railways had some steam locos in genuine commercial use; but said country, must always have been one of the world's least-favourable / possible for foreigners to wander around in ad lib, trying to discover things. There took place in past decades, some actual organised railway-enthusiast tours in NK -- the one-time undertaking To Europe For Steam was a prominent "player" therein; but those in control in that land, totally "call the tune" vis-a-vis all such things: from reports of these tours, it would appear that the steam action very much revolved around specials laid on for the groups -- using steam locos which also ran in genuine everyday commercial service, but witnessing of those everyday doings was not "on the menu". It would appear that such happenings likely still occur -- as per @Vespa above, seemingly in a highly specialised situation.

There comes to mind, that there is presumably a matter of break-of-gauge between Russia (1520mm), and Korea ("four-eight-and-a-half"); one wonders quite how that is handled, for freight traffic -- the "steam factor" perhaps involved there?.

Whimsically -- with North Korea's notoriety for all manner of sinister and outlandish goings-on: the notion crosses the mind, of "mad scientists / thought police" there, having developed who-knows-what scary techniques to achieve their malign ends: could they have perhaps been messing with the journalist's head so that he thought he was hearing / seeing a steam loco, when in fact it was just a boring diesel...?
He was in China though, only viewing North Korea from a distance. Mind you, the Chinese are probably just as adept at messing with visiting journos heads...
 

notverydeep

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The North Korean rail system certainly had serviceable steam locos and infrastructure at least until the pandemic. A German tour company Farrail offered tours up to 2007 (when 'normal' steam use apparently ceased) and then again between 2016 to 2020 as a number of locos had been restored to use, ostensibly for heritage purposes. An early 2020 tour was advertised according to their website which includes some photos of steam locos in the DPRK: https://www.farrail.net/pages/touren-engl/DPRK-North_Korea-steam-railway-tour-2020.php:

North Korea is a place you hear about in the news almost every week. Some feel the need to express their views about this country, but only a very few have ever visited it. FarRail Tours has successfully guided six tours to North Korea, having stopped with the end of steam operations on the state railways in 2007 and returned in 2016, when three steam locos were available. Since then four additional steam locomotives have been restored and are operational. We are, again, able to add some new spots and events which weren’t possible until now.
It isn't clear whether this tour went ahead, as it was just prior to the worst of the global shut downs in early 2020, but the extensive photos from previous tours are fascinating! [Edit - it says right at the bottom that it was cancelled due to the pandemic]. It would be interesting to know the fate of the restored locos mentioned.

'Normal' steam use in China ended around the same time, but with gradually diminishing pockets of industrial steam, including extensive coal field networks continuing after that, with a very few locations remaining today. China does have a small 'heritage railway' sector...
 
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Peter Mugridge

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The reporter does mention "the whistle of a train" -- as opposed to "hoot" or whatever; but am likely engaging in wishful thinking here -- non-railway-enthusiasts are renownedly slapdash / imprecise / poetic-license-y about such things...
I'm not sure we could rely 100% on that... I recall being surprised when my train and a couple of others were being recovered from snow disruption at Rugby once that the class 31s doing the recovery had whistles on them.
 

Lxd2

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My recollection of travelling in Russia and other former Soviet countries is that all locos have whistles, which are used when shunting, and which sounded to my ears just like steam whistles.
 

ainsworth74

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There took place in past decades, some actual organised railway-enthusiast tours in NK -- the one-time undertaking To Europe For Steam was a prominent "player" therein; but those in control in that land, totally "call the tune" vis-a-vis all such things: from reports of these tours, it would appear that the steam action very much revolved around specials laid on for the groups -- using steam locos which also ran in genuine everyday commercial service, but witnessing of those everyday doings was not "on the menu".

Yes I always thought that those tours looked quite interesting, I'm not sure if there's been any since but I've attached the itinerary for one which took place in late 2019 with a summary below. It's quite clear that it was very highly controlled just as any visit to North Korea usually is.

GRAND RAIL TOUR 2019

Sunday 27th October to Wednesday 6th November 2019 (10 nights in the DPRK + 2 nights on the train)

Alternative Exits: via the DPRK-Russian border at Tumangang on Monday 4th November or via Air Koryo flight to Beijing on Tuesday 5th November

Featuring JF 2-8-2 Mikado / Mika-6 / Puruso Japanese built steam locomotives / Working Industrial Steam / Pyongyang Metro / Private Charter Diesel Train

as well as Vintage ‘Chollima’ No. 903 Trolleybus / Modern DPRK-made Trolleybus / Tatra T4D Tram / KT8D5K Tram / Chongjin Trolleybus

while Exploring Pyongyang / Kaesong & D.M.Z / Mt. Myohyang / Wonsan / Hamhung / Chongjin / [+Rason & Tumangang]

Juche Travel Services is a DPRK travel and transport specialist and the first tour company to re-introduce rail tours to the country after a long hiatus. Our first tour, in September 2013, was followed by further successes in 2014, 2015 and 2016. After a three year break, the 2019 tour will be bigger and better than ever!

The most exciting element is the significant increase in steam locomotive content, including relatively long-distance rides compared to previous tours. This is in addition to our cross-Korean odyssey onboard our well-equipped diesel-hauled private charter train, conveying the group along rail routes very rarely travelled by foreign tourists, plus the large array of public transportation offerings.

There is also the exciting possibility, should you wish at the end of the tour, to travel all the way to Moscow via the super-rare border crossing at Tumangang / Khasan on the Trans-Siberian railway, using the extremely elusive DPRK international carriage. Should you take this option, you would be one of only a handful of tourists to have ever undertaken such a journey before.

This comprehensive tour will appeal not only to rail enthusiasts but also intrepid travellers and repeat DPRK visitors looking for something completely unique!

Would be a fascinating country to visit though perhaps not at this precise time...
 

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