Looking at a photo of steam heated stock in passenger service I saw how much steam was leaking from under he carriages. I assume you would not get a constant temperature throughout the train, front carriages were warm but those at back of say a 12 coach must have been barely heated, was the last carriages uncomfortably cold with steam heating? . What happened to the water after the steam condensed, did it just leak out or was there a way it would drain out? I should imagine that several of the components dealing with steam heating in carriages must have corroded quickly due to the constant dampness.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Steam Heating
- Thread starter Carbean
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
The steam seen issuing from coaches is deliberate - it allows the hot steam to flow from the front end of the train to the rear. The discharge also removes any condensate that forms. The steam from the engine boiler passes through a pressure-reducer to around 60psi/4 bar before passing into the carriages.
Gloster
Veteran Member
I believe that the pipes running through each coach had traps at both ends. Presumably, the motion of the train and gradients would cause any water to run down the pipe to the traps and so end up in the track.
Yes, the rear coach could be cold or take a long time to warm up. However, in days of old a loco, either the train loco or the pilot that brought the coaches in, would often be attached in good time/not detached too early and pre-heat the coaches. But life, not just the railway, was colder and people were used to keeping heavy coats and scarves on.
Yes, the rear coach could be cold or take a long time to warm up. However, in days of old a loco, either the train loco or the pilot that brought the coaches in, would often be attached in good time/not detached too early and pre-heat the coaches. But life, not just the railway, was colder and people were used to keeping heavy coats and scarves on.
In some locations there were old immobilised locos retained as stationary boilers for warming stabled train sets. Warming up additional carriages added at the last moment without the benefit of pre-heating would have caused more of a problem of course. Whatever its imperfections, steam heating was a big improvement over the foot warmers it replaced.
StoneRoad
Member
Depends how cold it was outside, and how long the steam heat had been on ...
not unknown for another engine to be used to warm up rakes !
Most carriages have a means of isolating the supply to them {& anything behind them} as well as a drain cock, that's probably where the steam is "leaking" from - assuming the joints are all OK.
not unknown for another engine to be used to warm up rakes !
Most carriages have a means of isolating the supply to them {& anything behind them} as well as a drain cock, that's probably where the steam is "leaking" from - assuming the joints are all OK.
There is a previous discussion here:
Ex locos as carriage heaters
Thought this would be an interesting conversation for discussion... Two questions from me to kick off. First, how late into 1968 were the last ex-LNER B1 carriage heating locos in use? Second, how extensive was the conversion of class 15 locos into carriage heaters? Could the locos move on...
www.railforums.co.uk
Some locations had stationary boilers for pre-heating trains, including Kings Cross.
A train pre-heated by the stationary boiler at Kings Cross would be warm at the back!
webbfan
Member
Used to get the Stranraer to Euston train at Nuneaton winter late 80's, was steam heated. Always plenty of seats in last coach but no heat got that far down the train. It was cold.
43096
On Moderation
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 18,741
Hmmmmm. Every report I have seen of the Stranraer to Euston in the 1980s had it as electrically hauled on the West Coast Main Line, so obviously electric heat. Steam heat had finished on service trains in October 1987, so not sure your memory is correct?
Brightonboy
Member
I always liked steam heated trains, it seems to me (invented or defective memory?) that the escaping steam also warmed up the platform area , even at through stations, which made waiting for a train less chilly on a cold day. Bring back Mk1s and steam heating I say! 
webbfan
Member
You are most certainly correct. Wouldn't know what steam heating looked like. Just remember big grills under occasional seat through which hot air could be dispatched but on last coach wasn't
Spartacus
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Aug 2009
- Messages
- 3,806
Deliberate to a degree. I've been on ill maintained sets with steaming issuing from almost everywhere which were practically unheated at the back but nice and snug at the front.
The system if working as designed is pressurised and steam above the working pressure escapes through valves in the steam mains fitted through the coaches (these have a low point to allow water to drain as well) and valves fitted to the connections at the end of the flexible pipe at the end of the coaches.
The flexible pipes are prone to blowing if pressure is too high and leaks in the heating mains or connections can reduce efficiency. It also depends how much steam is being produced by the loco boiler.
It takes time to work effectively especially with a long train and causes dampness. You can watch it work along the rake of stock and each dump valve opening under pressure as the steam reaches it, initially with water forced out and then wisps of steam if it's working correctly.
The flexible pipes are prone to blowing if pressure is too high and leaks in the heating mains or connections can reduce efficiency. It also depends how much steam is being produced by the loco boiler.
It takes time to work effectively especially with a long train and causes dampness. You can watch it work along the rake of stock and each dump valve opening under pressure as the steam reaches it, initially with water forced out and then wisps of steam if it's working correctly.
Still exists. Try a preserved railway at this time of year with the option of steam heating by diesels on one or two (e.g. ELR, SVR) as well as kettles doing what they do best.
In my youth I recall being on an up train from Penzance which was held for a "stop and examine" at Ivybridge. The steam pipe had split between two of the carriages and the vestibule and corridors were full of steam. The noise was quite impressive too. It got colder later.....!
West coast overnights in mk1s were binary, either sweatingly hot, or freezing cold. You’d start hot but wake up cold because a few hours earlier you’d turned the big heating control knob on the compartment wall to ‘off’.
Southbound was easy, turn it back on again - northbound, you stayed cold because you’d now be in Scotland with a boilered diesel delivering a level of heating best measured in candle power.
West Coast Mark 1 sleepers were dual-heated. If you preferred to attempt to sleep in a cooler compartment, it was advisable to turn off both the steam and electric heating to avoid waking up in the middle of the night and finding yourself (depending on your direction of travel) either lying on top of a griddle or wearing pyjamas in a sauna!
ThirteenArches
Member
I remember a report in a mid-60s Railway Magazine, about a L&Y 0-4-4T at Miles Platting, that had spent about 40 years in this service after withdrawal.
There were several old engines stationary alongside the carriage sheds at Cheetham Hill Jnc. in Manchester.
Another aspect of steam heating is that many passengers did not realise how you could control it, often with that big knob next to the window,
delt1c
Established Member
- Joined
- 4 Apr 2008
- Messages
- 2,181
Should have been electric heating in late 80's
Friary Yard
Member
In the 1970's Plymouth had a 4 wheel Steam Generator Van which was attached to the Plymouth Sleeping Car portion for the night train from Penzance to Paddington at Platform 8 to pre-heat the coaches before the train engine arrived. During the day the van was kept at the stop blocks on Park Sidings
Gloster
Veteran Member
Probably DW123821, built on the frames of a Mink A and may also have been used at Penzance. Ended up at Carnforth, possibly after use in Scotland, but was scrapped in March 2023.
No effect on air supply... I think on dual-heat stock one knob said "This knob controls the steam heating on this side of the compartment" and the other said "This knob controls the steam heating on this side of the compartment and the electric heating on both sides"
If you wanted ventilation you opened the sliding top windows.
(Unlike French couchettes which had one knob with Max Ventilation at one end of its scale and Max heat at the other... Impossible to get just right!)
Was DW123821 unique, or were there others?
Does anyone know where and when DW123821 was converted, and what sort of boiler it had?
Gloster
Veteran Member
The only information I can find is in Departmental Coaching Stock (Peter Fox, Platform 5, 1984).
It was converted on Lot 1069, but no date is given. However, lot numbers around this are 1960. With a lot number it is likely it was converted at Swindon. It used the underframe of Mink A W123821W, a 1933 Diagram V23.
I can find absolutely no reference to any others and suspect that it was a one-off for a specific purpose, i.e. use in Millbay Docks.
There are pictures on Flickr of the boiler, or parts of it, at Carnforth and, if you know about the subject, might identify the type. Do a google search for DW123821, choose one of the Flickr images on Google Images and then use the Tag near the bottom.
There were several. A series was built around 1959 with boilers when the first section of the WCML electrification opened from Manchester, and there was insufficient electric heated stock. I think they were converted from former LMS vans. I presume the fireman had to ride in them. They were likewise not numbered in passenger stock series, but as departmental stock. The new electric locos had to shunt them around when they changed locos.
Gloster
Veteran Member
Full details of the twenty of these can be found on the RCTS site on the page LMSR/BR Steam Heating Generator Vans.
There were also a number built for the SR. Two former Special Cattle Vans were converted in 1962 for use between Bournemouth and Weymouth, but they probably only worked at Weymouth before moving on. There were also five former SR mineral wagon underframes used for boiler van conversions in 1962 for use in Southampton Docks; these also got about later. I suspect, but haven’t the time to look, that there were one or two other oddities converted on a local or regional basis.
Thanks. What I meant was whether there were any other vans to the same design as DW123821. To put it another way, was lot 1069 just one van or more than one?
There are at least 5 other types of steam heat van.
Gloster
Veteran Member
The RCTS site mentioned in #28 only mentions one other WR van: ADW150322. This was converted, probably in the early 1960s, from a Siphon G, probably Diagram O22 1199, to a Train Heating Instruction Van. I think it is preserved: it was and may still be at the Swindon & Cricklade.
- Status