Statutory Declaration - Northern Rail

[brickinthewall]

I have my Statutory Declaration hearing on Friday.

Back in 2023, I bought a rail ticket using the wrong discount. I own a 16-25 rail card but the one I purchased was for a 16-17 rail card. This was a one time incident and I've never done this before. The price between the two tickets is 99p. The ticket operator took my address details but didnt say I was getting any penalty, but that he just needed to log it into the system. He mentioned that he can't verify my details and that it was a problem with the machine. He said he will get his manager to sort it and he left. I was given no information at all.

Fast forward to 20 days ago.. I suddenly received a letter from the court that I had a prosecution and a fine of £500. I had no idea what this was for so I had to call them up. But yes, it was for that mistake I made.

Looking at the documents that the court finally sent over, the railway company put the wrong house number. They put next doors address. So I can easily prove that I never received any notice of this.

So I am going to be pleading not-guilty. But I will attempt to settle this with the rail company out of court after my statutory declaration.

Now according to the railway penalty regulations 2018 he legally had to tell me he was giving me a penalty fine and he didn't? Even in his witness statement he doesn't mention that he told me I was getting a penalty. He didn't ask for any identification, he didn't give me any paper with any details on it. Nothing.

I also can prove this this was a one time incident, I travel along this route regularly and I've never purchased a ticket with the incorrect rail card.

I'm just feeling a bit anxious about it all. If I get a criminal record I could potentially lose my job.



What is the likelihood that Northern Rail would do an out of court settlement? Especially since they had the wrong address, and they didn't follow procedure when 'issuing the penalty'?

 

[Haywain]

Now according to the railway penalty regulations 2018 he legally had to tell me he was giving me a penalty fine and he didn't?

No, because you weren't issued a Penalty Fare.

What is the likelihood that Northern Rail would do an out of court settlement?

Pretty good but you should waste no time getting in contact with them. Do it now, not wait until Friday.

Especially since they had the wrong address, and they didn't follow procedure when 'issuing the penalty'?

None of this is relevant.

 

[Hadders]

I agree with @Haywain

Do not delay in contacting Northern - it's likely that they will agree to a settlement but you've got a fair bit of legwork to do to get there. There is no emtitlement to a settlement and the case can simply be heard again in the Magistrates Court if that's what Northern decide they want to do.

 

[Puffing Devil]

So I am going to be pleading not-guilty. But I will attempt to settle this with the rail company out of court after my statutory declaration.

Be careful with pleading not guilty - we really need to see the court paperwork posted here, with identifying information blanked out.

If you're being prosecuted under the railway bylaws then, by your own admission above, you are guilty. You may wish to address the court to minimise any penalty, but you are still guilty. Pleading not guilty sets you on the path for a trial which you would most likely lose.

If you are not able to contact Northern before the hearing on Friday and there is no Northern prosecutor at the court, you could ask for an adjournment to reach a settlement out of court.

 

[Hadders]

Be careful with pleading not guilty - we really need to see the court paperwork posted here, with identifying information blanked out.

Agree with needing to see the paperwork.

The danger with pleading guilty is that the OP could be sentenced there and then. The OP really needs Northern to settle and withdraw the case.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Agree with needing to see the paperwork.

The danger with pleading guilty is that the OP could be sentenced there and then. The OP really needs Northern to settle and withdraw the case.

Hence the ask for an adjournment if there is no Northern prosecutor to settle with on the day. The OP should enter no plea in that case.

 

[WesternLancer]

I have my Statutory Declaration hearing on Friday.

Back in 2023, I bought a rail ticket using the wrong discount. I own a 16-25 rail card but the one I purchased was for a 16-17 rail card. This was a one time incident and I've never done this before. The price between the two tickets is 99p. The ticket operator took my address details but didnt say I was getting any penalty, but that he just needed to log it into the system. He mentioned that he can't verify my details and that it was a problem with the machine. He said he will get his manager to sort it and he left. I was given no information at all.

Fast forward to 20 days ago.. I suddenly received a letter from the court that I had a prosecution and a fine of £500. I had no idea what this was for so I had to call them up. But yes, it was for that mistake I made.

Looking at the documents that the court finally sent over, the railway company put the wrong house number. They put next doors address. So I can easily prove that I never received any notice of this.

So I am going to be pleading not-guilty. But I will attempt to settle this with the rail company out of court after my statutory declaration.

Now according to the railway penalty regulations 2018 he legally had to tell me he was giving me a penalty fine and he didn't? Even in his witness statement he doesn't mention that he told me I was getting a penalty. He didn't ask for any identification, he didn't give me any paper with any details on it. Nothing.

I also can prove this this was a one time incident, I travel along this route regularly and I've never purchased a ticket with the incorrect rail card.

I'm just feeling a bit anxious about it all. If I get a criminal record I could potentially lose my job.



What is the likelihood that Northern Rail would do an out of court settlement? Especially since they had the wrong address, and they didn't follow procedure when 'issuing the penalty'?

Hi - hope you can have soem luck sorting this - and help from the Forum should assist.

But on a general comment if the staff member only said as you described (not saying you are lying at all but things do sometimes seem to get 'lost in translation' in these situations it is very poor that it was implied that there would be no consequences to you of 'logging the ticket on the system' or taking your name and address (and then recording the address wrongly). When this is over I would be writing in forceful terms to their customer services about that - and raising the wider points with Passenger Focus (the 'watchdog') given the wider consequences of their action on the day.

We have seen other cases (Transport for Wales I think) where external contractors are used for some ticket inspections and have used 'underhand' tactics to obtain information from passengers - eg claiming ticket checks are some sort of survey comes to mind from one reported on here not so long ago. I'm not sure if Northern use the same contractors in some places.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We have seen other cases (Transport for Wales I think) where external contractors are used for some ticket inspections and have used 'underhand' tactics to obtain information from passengers - eg claiming ticket checks are some sort of survey comes to mind from one reported on here not so long ago. I'm not sure if Northern use the same contractors in some places.

That was WMT and you could tell it wasn't for a survey by the rather forceful and abrasive way they spoke if you attempted to decline any of their questions. They were clearly undercover RPIs of some kind.

 

[WesternLancer]

That was WMT and you could tell it wasn't for a survey by the rather forceful and abrasive way they spoke if you attempted to decline any of their questions. They were clearly undercover RPIs of some kind.

Thanks for clarifying / added information.

I think the wider issue still stands of course, that the OP here seemed to have no idea of the seriousness of the consequences of the actions of the person who took their details on the train. Not even being told for example 'this will get checked by the office and you may be written to about it' (or so we are advised by the OP's recollection of events.