Stations with higher than justified service

[Zoe]

I can think of two stations that it can be argued get a higher than justified service: Tiverton Parkway and Totnes. Both have had almost every train that passes stop there since 2006. Are there any other examples where it could be argued that the train service is higher than justified?

 

[northwichcat]

It's going to depend how you define a 'justified' service here.

Ashley station gets an hourly service in both directions but gets 4328 entries/exits per annum. Just a few miles away Knutsford gets 310000 entries/exits per annum and gets the same level of service. However, you could say the issue here is Knutsford gets too few trains opposed to Ashley getting too many.

 

[ukrob]

Pretty sure was done (again) just last week?

 

[Zoe]

Pretty sure was done (again) just last week?

Sorry if that was the case, could someone link?

 

[ukrob]

I'm trying to find it now

 

[Ivo]

If this thread has already been one, I apologise; but otherwise, the Cross-City and Snow Hill Lines in Brum.

 

[cuccir]

I could be provocative and say Manchester Oxford Road. It's at most a 10 minute walk from Piccadilly, and less from St Peter's Square Metrolink. Though I've used it, and lots of people do use it, I can see little extra stress in most cases in using Piccadilly, compared to time saved on the many journeys that don't have to stop there

 

[telstarbox]

I could be provocative and say Manchester Oxford Road. It's at most a 10 minute walk from Piccadilly, and less from St Peter's Square Metrolink. Though I've used it, and lots of people do use it, I can see little extra stress in most cases in using Piccadilly, compared to time saved on the many journeys that don't have to stop there

However, by turning the Liverpool stoppers at Oxford Rd it stops them blocking the through platforms at Piccadilly

 

[ukrob]

I could be provocative and say Manchester Oxford Road. It's at most a 10 minute walk from Piccadilly, and less from St Peter's Square Metrolink. Though I've used it, and lots of people do use it, I can see little extra stress in most cases in using Piccadilly, compared to time saved on the many journeys that don't have to stop there

Not sure I would like to see Oxford Roads 6.5 million passengers added to the single island platform at Piccadilly.

 

[SS4]

If this thread has already been one, I apologise; but otherwise, the Cross-City and Snow Hill Lines in Brum.

I have to agree although a train every 10mins to brum (or sutton) is very handy

 

[greatkingrat]

Crews Hill and Bayford on the Hertford Loop have 3tph off-peak and are very lightly used.

Closer to London Drayton Park has 6tph off-peak and 12tph peak. I know it is the AC/DC changeover point but otherwise it would not justify such a service.

 

[tbtc]

Pretty sure was done (again) just last week?

It was, aye.

I think there's a difference between "a quiet station on a busier line" (where it might become complicated to only stop a smaller number of trains there, especially as all trains on that stretch may have the same time from end to end) and "lines which get a better service than they deserve".

 

[RobShipway]

I would include Ascot as anytime I have come home to Martins Heron from London on a Saturday not many people get off the trains. The only times I see that Ascot is busy is for Royal Ascot week.

 

[RPI]

Tiverton Parkway and Totnes are pretty busy stations!

 

[Zoe]

Tiverton Parkway and Totnes are pretty busy stations!

I'm not saying they are not used and at peaks times they are well used. I'm not sure they could be described as busy though, I've been on trains at both stations where almost no-one has got on or off so these calls do seem a bit ponless. In no way am I saying London or XC trains shouldn't stop there at all. This thread is about stations that get too many services.

 

[RPI]

I work trains through both stations and even off-peak you pick up more than at Newton Abbot (which has always had virtually every train stop there!)

 

[radamfi]

I don't think Three Bridges deserves 8 trains per hour off peak and 3 trains per hour overnight - but I'm not complaining - that's why I moved there!

 

[Zoe]

I work trains through both stations and even off-peak you pick up more than at Newton Abbot (which has always had virtually every train stop there!)

That may well be the case for FGW but not sure about XC. Even for FGW though things must have picked up quite a bit in recent times then, any reason for this? You stations don't exactly serve anywhere of note, at least with Newton Abbot it's the GWMLs station for Torbay.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'd also have thought Tiverton and Totnes passengers could be accomodated by using Taunton or Newton Abbot stations to save having to slow down the express trains.

 

[Tufty]

I could be provocative and say Manchester Oxford Road. It's at most a 10 minute walk from Piccadilly, and less from St Peter's Square Metrolink. Though I've used it, and lots of people do use it, I can see little extra stress in most cases in using Piccadilly, compared to time saved on the many journeys that don't have to stop there[/QUOTE

I think the local uni generates a lot of journeys from MCO and with an annual passengers usage of 6.5million it looks like the stops there are needed. However, I do agree that some long hauls wouldn't be as chock full if they missed MCO out. Especially the scottish services because at peak they are used as a commuter service to Bolton and folk with pre booked seats to Glasgow/Edinburgh can't get near them.

 

[TheWalrus]

totnes was one i thought deserved more london calls!

 

[imagination]

Clapham Junction. Nowhere would justify THAT many trains.

 

[ChrisCooper]

I think a lot of suburban stations would come under this, including those that are well used at peak times but almost dead the rest of the day. Many not only get frequent trains but often long too, especially around London. Even tube and light rail stations can be very quiet off peak once you get out of the centre. With a brutal approach, I'm sure many stations would be closed off peak (I often think it should be considered closing some lightly used urban stations that are trouble hotspots after the evening peak, especially where the cost of staffing to deal with the problem is not justified by passenger numbers).

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Tiverton Parkway and Totnes are pretty busy stations!

I have to agree both ways on those stations.
They can be deserted (and barely justify long distance stopping) and be busy.
I guess some more thorough market research might help, to find out where the demand (and potential demand) comes from, at what times and with what budgets.
Totnes, I know, has quite sporadic bursts of travel, related to the town's facilities, but which are difficult to incorporate into a long-term timetable.

 

[12CSVT]

Harlington (Beds) - village station with 4 tph off peak

Kempston Hardwick - hourly service with hardly anybody using it

All the intermediate stops between Heath Low Level and Coryton (how does a 2 mile branch line justify 6 stations let alone 2 tph ?)

 

[EirikhO]

I'll be a bit different and say Mill Hill East. I believe it has four trains per hour, while the passenger numbers off-peak does not really justify more than a single carriage train every 30 minutes (or even 45 minutes).

 

[Mintona]

Birchington on Sea. Two trains to London per hour for a reasonably small village seems a bit excessive,

 

[cle]

Many of these are anachronisms - for example, stations on stopping services lines getting the same as the busier station next door. It's usually for simplicity, rather than having to timetable different stopping patterns. DfT changes indicate that set, clockface and predictable stopping patterns are the future.

Harlington for example, is on a slow line (until St Albans) and it keeps the TL timetable clockface and easy.

Drayton Park I don't thinkshould be cut. None of those FCC trains skip underground stations, and it should be encouraged for more use, as with Essex Road. Highbury&I and Angel are both overcrowded, what it needs is no timetable required and weekend services, and then passenger numbers would go up.

Manchester Oxford Road should definitely be retained. It serves a different part of the city to Piccadilly, and relieves it a great deal. It's arguable that Deansgate and Salford Central (with new platforms) should have more services calling, to disperse passengers better around the city, and help even out economic activity. They're both near Spinningfields too!

The Bolton/Scotland trains are an issue. Salford Crescent has gone (fair enough), Chorley should go too. After MCO, they should stop at Bolton and Preston only. But an additional faster service needs to be run - perhaps the Windemere/Barrow train could become hourly (alternating) but go to Salford Crescent, Central and Victoria instead.

 

[Johnny Lewis]

AFAIK Manchester Oxford Road is actually the busiest of the 5 Manchester city centre stations for peak-time commuters (or it might be second busiest after Piccadilly?)

Certainly, in the days of my tortuous commutes into Manchester (from Atherton line), there were usually FAR more people getting off trains at Oxford Road than at Piccadilly, (and far more people getting off at Salford Central than at Victoria).

I guess people travelling eastbound into Manchester that work, say equidistant from Oxford Road and Piccadilly will get off at the first station their train calls at, which, in that case, would be Oxford Road.

Off-peak usage of Oxford Road tends to be fairly light, and there could be a school of thought for stopping fewer trains there, in particular, the Manchester Airport - Scotland services, which, when operated by Virgin, never did stop at Oxford Road. But the linespeeds and sheer numbers of trains passing through this section would almost certainly see trains facing red signals at some point, so very little, if any, time would be saved by not calling.

In some ways, Deansgate is a better place for trains to call, because there is direct access to / from Metrolink, but station facilities do not lend themselves to dealing with large numbers of people. That said, there are at least lifts at Deansgate, whereas at Oxford Road, people using platforms 1-3 are still forced to struggle up and down stairs.

 

[sprinterguy]

If this thread has already been one, I apologise; but otherwise, the Cross-City and Snow Hill Lines in Brum.

Really? During peak hours, services on the Cross City and Snow Hill lines are full and standing, sometimes packed to the rafters, even with the provision of some six car trains on Cross City and four/occasionally five on the Snow Hill lines. On the Snow Hill lines, service frequency can be fairly basic outside of the core central section. During the off peak, I imagine that the Cross City line frequency could be cut to quarter hourly rather than every ten minutes and cope easily with passenger numbers, but England’s second city deserves a “Metro” style frequency on its’ principal cross city rail arteries that allows people to simply turn up and go.

 

[northwichcat]

The Bolton/Scotland trains are an issue. Salford Crescent has gone (fair enough), Chorley should go too. After MCO, they should stop at Bolton and Preston only. But an additional faster service needs to be run - perhaps the Windemere/Barrow train could become hourly (alternating) but go to Salford Crescent, Central and Victoria instead.

The problem is the Manchester Airport-Windermere service that alternated with the Barrows was scrapped in 2007 (for the purpose of the Voyagers being used elsewhere) and the Scottish services were then put in the Windermere path using 185s with extra calls at Oxford Rd, Salford Crescent and Chorley to compensate for the lack of the Windermere service.

The Salford Crescent stop was removed from Scottish services when Northern's service was enhanced in December 2008 and it was actually a case of TPE had to remove one call due to pathing problems opposed to them chosing to remove the stop.