Stations where Platforms Should Allow Double Occupancy

[Topological]

I remember there was a thread asking about locations where it was possible for a train to arrive from 1 direction (call it direction A), occupy the platform and then another train arrive from the opposite direction (call that direction B) and the the trains depart either back in their respective directions or both depart in the same direction.

The upcoming split of Penzance to Cardiff trains at Exeter St Davids provides an example where being able to have the two half journeys occupy the same platform and then go back to where they came from could help keep connections.

A similar thing applies with Manchester to South Wales where the Manchester to Cardiff half often arrives into platforms 3 and 4, whilst the services heading west can often depart from 3 and 4. The trains physically fit, so being able to use the same platform face in Cardiff could help keep things moving without blocking the other platform.

There are no doubt many examples where trains cannot currently do this, but IF the money existed to provide the signalling then it could be done physically.

(I am aware there will be an industry term for what is being described so the thread title will probably change)

 

[Magdalia]

I remember there was a thread asking about locations where it was possible for a train to arrive from 1 direction (call it direction A), occupy the platform and then another train arrive from the opposite direction (call that direction B) and the the trains depart either back in their respective directions or both depart in the same direction.

Royston operated in this way 1978-88 with EMUs from/to Kings Cross and DMUs from/to Cambridge.

 

[DanNCL]

Sunderland. The platforms already have signals halfway down but because it’s double blocked (required because of the poor crashworthiness of the outgoing metro fleet), only one end can be occupied at a time. Once the Metrocars are gone there’s no reason why the double blocking should remain.

 

[jfollows]

Permissive working is already allowed for passenger trains at Cardiff Central, “PP” in the Sectional Appendix.
There is “PP-S” defined for “Platform sharing use only” but Cardiff is “full use” on its platforms (https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/sectional-appendix/Sectional Appendix full PDFs December 24/Western and Wales Sectional Appendix December 2024.pdf page 427).

It’s true that permissive working for passenger trains used to be more common, Stockport for example, but there are many places in which the railway couldn’t operate without it.

 

[AndrewE]

It would be valuable in a lot more places, but sadly modern safety concerns seem to rule it out.
One place where it does survive is Chester Platform 3 which has a crossover half-way along - so isn't really in this category as they just keep the points set to prevent any conflict - although as there is only 1 crossover it isn't fully flexible.

 

[jfollows]

Chester has signals mid-platform, as do platforms 13 & 14 at Manchester Piccadilly, so neither needs permissive working.
Chester is PP-A platforms 3 & 4, for attaching and detaching only, PP on other platforms.

 

[AndrewE]

Chester has signals mid-platform, as do platforms 13 & 14 at Manchester Piccadilly, so neither needs permissive working.
Chester is PP-A platforms 3 & 4, for attaching and detaching only, PP on other platforms.

I thought that pfms 13 and 14 couldn't be used because the signal overlaps weren't long enough?

 

[jfollows]

I thought that pfms 13 and 14 couldn't be used because the signal overlaps weren't long enough?

Fine for short enough trains, but most trains aren’t short enough. You can only be cleared to the mid-platform signal if its overlap is clear, but it’s normally occupied by the train in front.

 

[Class15]

Chester has signals mid-platform, as do platforms 13 & 14 at Manchester Piccadilly, so neither needs permissive working.
Chester is PP-A platforms 3 & 4, for attaching and detaching only, PP on other platforms.

Don’t forget everywhere on the Thameslink core!