Stations that ought to be closed down.

[Beveridges]

Ardwick should not be closed down it is used by trainspotters who want to 'keep out of the way' of the busy Piccadilly station, get some piece and quiet yet still see the same trains.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

The facility is there at Lelant Saltings.
Parking is not easy for visitors in St Ives. (Locals know the system!)
I would have thought it would be best in the long term to leave LTS open.
(The land available at St Erth Station is far from huge!)

With better parking facilities at St Erth, there is also potential for this station to be popular for commuters etc from the very West of Cornwall using mainline trains, rather than use Penzance etc.

Having went on holiday in Cornwall, the amount of people using Lelant Saltings to head into St Ives was huge. The football field was used as the car-park. Even though we set out early to try and get on the train at St Erth, it was still full and resorted to Lelant Saltings anyway

 

[johnnychips]

Perhaps the old Buckenham Ferry could be reinstated and slight road widening added to allow for bay parking near the station. I don't know what else could be done, but something needs to be put in there. Sooner or later the residents South of the Yare will be really annoyed with the lack of rail access to their villages, and also will suffer as areas North of the river nick any and all of the tourists.

The existing bus services are frankly received with a mixture of disdain and reluctant acceptance, other than the Norwich P&R scheme. They certainly need competition.

The reinstatement of the bridge or ferry would cost a fortune; the road to the Beauchamp Arms (where the bridge or ferry would take off from) would need upgrading massively.

There is an hourly bus service from Loddon and Chedgrave south of the river to Norwich (and to Beccles and Lowestoft in the opposite direction) (X2). I've been working in this area in summer for the past 20-odd years, and until maybe six years ago it was an about 1.5 hourly service (171/2 and X seventy-something) at irregular times. There would now be no reason at all for residents of Loddon to get on a bus to Buckenham, get a train from there and then end up at Norwich station, which is hardly central: the X2 bus takes 38 minutes Loddon - Norwich.

 

[12CSVT]

Has there been much decline in usage at Gorton or Fairfield since the Metrolink route to Droylsden opened ?

 

[bicbasher]

Birkbeck could be a contender. It's currently a one platform NR service with 2tph between London Bridge and Beckenham Junction (Mon/Sat only) with 47,646 passengers who used it in 2010/11.

As Birkbeck is also a Tramlink station (with another single platform) with 6tph between Croydon and Beckenham Junction, it may be a better use of resources to divert those 2tph Southern services to Norwood Junction as I believe the South London RUS suggested?

 

[SprinterMan]

Having went on holiday in Cornwall, the amount of people using Lelant Saltings to head into St Ives was huge. The football field was used as the car-park. Even though we set out early to try and get on the train at St Erth, it was still full and resorted to Lelant Saltings anyway

Lelant was definitely the one I was referring too then :P
Sorry for the confusion, but the year-to-year passenger numbers on the line make no sense :P

 

[lukeobrien02]

Dorking west

there are already 2 stations in Dorking and few people use this station so i do not think that we can justify keeping it open

 

[martinsh]

Birkbeck could be a contender. It's currently a one platform NR service with 2tph between London Bridge and Beckenham Junction (Mon/Sat only) with 47,646 passengers who used it in 2010/11.

As Birkbeck is also a Tramlink station (with another single platform) with 6tph between Croydon and Beckenham Junction, it may be a better use of resources to divert those 2tph Southern services to Norwood Junction as I believe the South London RUS suggested?

Nut until I've done that line, it wouldn't

 

[dewsnapsliding]

Has there been much decline in usage at Gorton or Fairfield since the Metrolink route to Droylsden opened ?

They're not that close in reality.

A reopening of Droylsden station would probably have been more use than the Metrolink (aside from the station being out of the town centre).

 

[mister-sparky]

Dorking west

there are already 2 stations in Dorking and few people use this station so i do not think that we can justify keeping it open

See the other thread for more discussion about this. But Dorking West does not have poor usage. It has similar or more usage than the other two. Hundreds of people use it every day, not 16 per year.... It's the usage figures calculators that are screwed. All 3 stations serve very different and far apart areas of the town.

 

[Captain Chaos]

See the other thread for more discussion about this. But Dorking West does not have poor usage. It has similar or more usage than the other two. Hundreds of people use it every day, not 16 per year.... It's the usage figures calculators that are screwed. All 3 stations serve very different and far apart areas of the town.

Completely agree. I regularly work services there as a Guard and can assure you that I can sell this yearly quota from there in a shift. Closing Dorking West could even result in people stopping using the train altogether due to the inconvenience of having to go to the other stations. It's not used at the same levels as the other stations. But it does get used enough to certainly justify it's current service levels.

As a point: I sell more tickets from Dorking West than I do from Shalford, Chilworth or Gomshall (Shalford mostly due to the TVM that was installed though). It's the way the numbers are calculated. I cannot sell a ticket from Dorking West to Guildford as it has to be input as Dorking. I think what is happening is that they are just assuming Dorking Deepdene was used.

 

[Antman]

Birkbeck could be a contender. It's currently a one platform NR service with 2tph between London Bridge and Beckenham Junction (Mon/Sat only) with 47,646 passengers who used it in 2010/11.

As Birkbeck is also a Tramlink station (with another single platform) with 6tph between Croydon and Beckenham Junction, it may be a better use of resources to divert those 2tph Southern services to Norwood Junction as I believe the South London RUS suggested?

No no no, still need some sort of link between Beckenham Junction and at least Crystal Palace (tram?), the line is a useful route across South London
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Winchelsea, Three Oaks and Doleham between Rye and Hastings would seem obvious candidates?

 

[mister-sparky]

No no no, still need some sort of link between Beckenham Junction and at least Crystal Palace (tram?), the line is a useful route across South London
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Winchelsea, Three Oaks and Doleham between Rye and Hastings would seem obvious candidates?

Birkbeck will never close. No station in Greater London will ever again. It's a very useful route and the population of the area is set to sky rocket in years to come due to development in the area.

Winchelsea, Three Oaks and Doleham mostly have only 3 trains per day, which is why their usage is dire. It's another situation where if the service was increased would more passengers use it? So far Southern don't really seem keen until the line's electrified, which won't be for many years yet.

 

[bicbasher]

No no no, still need some sort of link between Beckenham Junction and at least Crystal Palace (tram?), the line is a useful route across South London

Beckenham Junction and Crystal Palace are connected by the 227 bus which is timetabled to take 14 minutes and is the only option of reaching between the two on Sundays as the service is curtailed at CP.

Birkbeck would continue to have 6tph from Tramlink and the local 354 bus which connects with nearby Clock House, Anerley and Penge West stations which have services to London Bridge.

Despite this, I can't see the line being closed unless Crystal Palace gets a Tramlink extension, which won't happen under the current London Mayor.

 

[Antman]

Beckenham Junction and Crystal Palace are connected by the 227 bus which is timetabled to take 14 minutes and is the only option of reaching between the two on Sundays as the service is curtailed at CP.

Birkbeck would continue to have 6tph from Tramlink and the local 354 bus which connects with nearby Clock House, Anerley and Penge West stations which have services to London Bridge.

Despite this, I can't see the line being closed unless Crystal Palace gets a Tramlink extension, which won't happen under the current London Mayor.

The train takes 7 minutes so the 227 is not much of a replacement. Journies like Beckeham to Streatham or Balham or even into SW London via Clapham Junction are fairly quick via this line but very time consuming by bus.

The trams could run a local shuttle between BJ and CP although I'm not sure there would be much advantage to this other than to give Tramlink more flexability with two lines to use. I am really not convince that a Tramlink extension from Croydon direction is justified though.

Its a pity there is no Sunday service but that certainly doesn't justify withdrawing the M-S service.

 

[bicbasher]

The train takes 7 minutes so the 227 is not much of a replacement. Journies like Beckeham to Streatham or Balham or even into SW London via Clapham Junction are fairly quick via this line but very time consuming by bus.

The trams could run a local shuttle between BJ and CP although I'm not sure there would be much advantage to this other than to give Tramlink more flexability with two lines to use. I am really not convince that a Tramlink extension from Croydon direction is justified though.

Its a pity there is no Sunday service but that certainly doesn't justify withdrawing the M-S service.

A 7 minute journey with up to a 30 minute wait or a 14 minute journey with buses every 8 minutes for most of the day? The patronage of the 227 bus speaks for itself for local journeys between those two stations.

I did consider journeys to Balham and Clapham Junction, however a Birkbeck passenger would still have to change at either Crystal Palace, Gipsy Hill or West Norwood for Victoria services as Beckenham Junction trains go to London Bridge. A Birkbeck passenger may find it more convenient to reach Clapham Junction by using Tramlink and then a fast service from East Croydon.

Incidentally, nearby Clock House station is used by 1.1m (2010/11) passengers on the Hayes line with 4tph to London.

Is there a lower used station in London than Birkbeck?

 

[W-on-Sea]

Is there a lower used station in London than Birkbeck?

More recent figures are on the Rail Regulator's website
http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/nav.1529

but for a "quick and dirty response", 2009/10 figures are quoted here
http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/birkbeck.html

and show Birkbeck as fourth-lowest used, after

1) Sudbury and Harrow Road (very limited peak hour-only service)
2) South Greenford
and
3) Angel Road (limited peak hour-only service, entrance to station moved a few years ago from a main road to an out-of-the-way and mildly inaccessibly location)

 

[Antman]

A 7 minute journey with up to a 30 minute wait or a 14 minute journey with buses every 8 minutes for most of the day? The patronage of the 227 bus speaks for itself for local journeys between those two stations.

I did consider journeys to Balham and Clapham Junction, however a Birkbeck passenger would still have to change at either Crystal Palace, Gipsy Hill or West Norwood for Victoria services as Beckenham Junction trains go to London Bridge. A Birkbeck passenger may find it more convenient to reach Clapham Junction by using Tramlink and then a fast service from East Croydon.

Incidentally, nearby Clock House station is used by 1.1m (2010/11) passengers on the Hayes line with 4tph to London.

Is there a lower used station in London than Birkbeck?

I've no idea TBH although useage at Birkbeck must be quite low.

Maybe I am trying to flog a dead horse in trying to make a case for keeping Beckenham Junction to Crystal Palace open but I certainly find that link useful and presumably others must do?

The other thing if it did close trains would have to be diverted to East or West Croydon which may cause capacity problems.

 

[NathanPrior]

St Johns, I've only ever seen about 10 people get on a train there

 

[Antman]

St Johns, I've only ever seen about 10 people get on a train there

St Johns is certainly far busier than the aforementioned Birkbeck......there would be outrage locally if you ever suggested closing it

 

[NathanPrior]

St Johns is certainly far busier than the aforementioned Birkbeck......there would be outrage locally if you ever suggested closing it

Lewisham/New Cross/New Cross Gate are just down the road

 

[Antman]

Lewisham/New Cross/New Cross Gate are just down the road

I know but they can get very busy and I'm not sure that another station nearby really justifies closure?

 

[W-on-Sea]

St Johns isn't even close: from the spreadsheet I linked to earlier, it had an estimated 696,206 entries and exits in 2011/12 - not the busiest station in London by a long way, for sure, but also a long way from being the quietest. (90th quietest, in fact)

The bottom 10 that year were:
1. Sudbury and Harrow Road (18,018)
2. Angel Road
3. South Greenford
4. Sudbury Hill Harrow
5. Birkbeck
6. Morden South
7. Emerson Park Halt
8. Drayton Green
9. Castle Bar Park
10. South Ruislip (135,896)

 

[Antman]

St Johns isn't even close: from the spreadsheet I linked to earlier, it had an estimated 696,206 entries and exits in 2011/12 - not the busiest station in London by a long way, for sure, but also a long way from being the quietest. (90th quietest, in fact)

The bottom 10 that year were:
1. Sudbury and Harrow Road (18,018)
2. Angel Road
3. South Greenford
4. Sudbury Hill Harrow
5. Birkbeck
6. Morden South
7. Emerson Park Halt
8. Drayton Green
9. Castle Bar Park
10. South Ruislip (135,896)

Sudbury Hill Harrow could close, only a few trains stip there and there is the tube nearby.

Morden South also has the tube nearby, then again when the tube goes belly up Morden South gets swamped.

 

[bicbasher]

I know but they can get very busy and I'm not sure that another station nearby really justifies closure?

In any case, Birkbeck wouldn't close, it'd lose it's National Rail service, but would keep it's Tramlink stop which has over 100,000 users.

The only reason I used Birkbeck is it appears to be the only Southern metro service in Inner London left with a 2tph service after the Inner SLL closed last December and like that line has other well used services nearby.

 

[SWT_USER]

St Johns isn't even close: from the spreadsheet I linked to earlier, it had an estimated 696,206 entries and exits in 2011/12 - not the busiest station in London by a long way, for sure, but also a long way from being the quietest. (90th quietest, in fact)

The bottom 10 that year were:
1. Sudbury and Harrow Road (18,018)
2. Angel Road
3. South Greenford
4. Sudbury Hill Harrow
5. Birkbeck
6. Morden South
7. Emerson Park Halt
8. Drayton Green
9. Castle Bar Park
10. South Ruislip (135,896)

I'd be interested to see the figures actual figures for the Greenford Branch, I've not had my ticket checked since NSE days on that line and there are no ticket machines. Based purely on anecdotal evidence I would suggest fare evasion is incredibly high on the section between South Greenford and West Ealing in particular.

 

[plastictaffy]

Cheddington on the WCML should be shut. Serves a poxy little village in the middle of nowhere. Worked a Peak hour Up train through there this morning, I had to dodge tumbleweed while the 6 punters got on. That was the most I've ever seen get on there.

 

[yorksrob]

Cheddington on the WCML should be shut. Serves a poxy little village in the middle of nowhere. Worked a Peak hour Up train through there this morning, I had to dodge tumbleweed while the 6 punters got on. That was the most I've ever seen get on there.

Six punters getting on one train ? That's really not that bad !

(And we shouldn't forget Cheddington's status as the original gateway to Aylesbury !)

 

[asylumxl]

Six punters getting on one train ? That's really not that bad !



(And we shouldn't forget Cheddington's status as the original gateway to Aylesbury !)

Still supposedly gets 70k people a year. A bit better than some stations!

 

[Cherry_Picker]

St Johns isn't even close: from the spreadsheet I linked to earlier, it had an estimated 696,206 entries and exits in 2011/12 - not the busiest station in London by a long way, for sure, but also a long way from being the quietest. (90th quietest, in fact)

The bottom 10 that year were:
1. Sudbury and Harrow Road (18,018)
2. Angel Road
3. South Greenford
4. Sudbury Hill Harrow
5. Birkbeck
6. Morden South
7. Emerson Park Halt
8. Drayton Green
9. Castle Bar Park
10. South Ruislip (135,896)

Three of the ten on the line into Marylebone. I'm almost impressed!

I'd question the South Ruislip figure though. It has to be almost impossible to measure given that two of the four platforms are national rail and the other two are London Underground and that most tickets issued at the station would be valid on either route.