Stations that ought to be closed down.

[DavidBrown]

For me locally, it has to be Chapelton on the Tarka Line. It only saw 190 passengers in each of the last two years (and lets bear in mind that it won't be 190 different people - it could well be one single person that has used the station 190 times in the year). I'm sorry, but you simply cannot have stations to serve every single house next to a railway line - the system would descend into chaos. Umberleigh Station is only a couple of miles away, and whilst bus links are very poor, this is in a part of the country where the car is a necessity. The linespeed here is currently 60mph, but with the potential for being increased as track gets replaced, so the time penalty for a rural branch line is quite high - even as a request stop.

 

[RPM]

About time Norton Bridge was put out of its misery surely? A grand total of no trains at all and a permanent replacement bus service. I would have thought the bus service could be transferred to the local authority and the station then officially closed.

 

[Holly]

'I'm a fan of the railways but I think there are some stations that really need to be closed and sited in better more deserving places.' ...

Acton Bridge and Hartford. Replaced by a single station placed at Weaverham between the two, where the WCML is quad track for a short distance. Many advantages.

 

[W230]

Out of curiosity, has anywhere ever used said "station"? I've been on a train travelling from (and possibly to, I can't remember) MUF, but not west of Piccadilly - some distance from the bit that actually matters.

I was on P14 at Piccadilly last year sometime on a Saturday afternoon and was surprised to see a 6 car 323 on it's way there. Quite a few people got on to the second and third carriages but certainly the rear 3 cars were empty.

 

[HSTEd]

Most of these stations don't even have lighting.

The costs of keeping them open are negligible, it presumably amounts to having someone attend to put new timetables up at each timetable change.

 

[Buttsy]

In the case of Berney Arms, it requires a couple of services each way each day to divert to serve the station- which means that Acle and Lingwood have gaps in their service pattern.

You have the situation with Berney Arms that, if you close it, all you 'save' is the cost of the brakes to stop there and the additional fuel to power the door and accelerate away on the occassions a train actually stops there. The route is not going to be removed as it provides Yarmouth with extra capacity and it appears that current timetable that 2 of the services routed this way during the week help provide a 30 min service to/from Yarmouth in the peaks. Additionally, the station gets a number of visitors in the summer.

I concur that the current 2 hour gap at Acle & Lingwood caused by the other 2 daytime services is probably unwarranted.

The cost of stopping being mimial is probably the reason why some stations survive when they wouldn't if there was a possibility of removing the tracks. Buckenham is a very good example of this: what is saved by closure?

 

[Proud Salopian]

Why Broome and not Hopton Heath? And why not Dolau, Llangunllo, Bynea, Llangennech etc etc. Where do you draw a line? Every station on the footfall list below 500? 1,000? 1,500? And as has already been said why not look at increasing services to increase footfall. hasn't it also been said for a long time that it is just so costly and time consuming to go through closure procedure that it's just as well to leave some stations open? Hence the existence of Denton, Brigg and a others.

You can't just look at passenger numbers, otherwise you'll end up "doing a Beeching".

Broome is very close to Craven Arms. You can walk to Craven Arms within 30 mins.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Things are not always what they seem. Maesteg; Ewenny Road and Garth are very close together, in railway terms, but on the ground they serve entirely different catchment areas. You would be surprised just how far apart they are if you decided to walk. Then there are Ty Glas and Birchgrove in Cardiff. Why not close one when they are within sight of each other? Ty Glas is convenient for the business Park but Birchgrove serves a residential area.

Many of the stations mentioned here might have few passengers but they cost next to nothing to maintain and they are used.

Conversely there a plenty of places that could do with a station now, having fallen victim to rationalisation in the past. I say good luck to those that managed to survive the orgy of closures in the 60s and 70s.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Polesworth, only one northbound service on weekdays, no southbound service

Again, what would closing it actually achieve? A train in the platform at Polesworth is not a bottleneck because it is on a four track railway.
They would have closed nearby Atherstone five years ago by that logic because it had few trains and hardly any passengers. The serviced got increased and passengers numbers are up something like 5000% since 2007.

Would putting a footbridge back in place at Polesworth station and reopening/rebuilding the up platform giving it a service proper again not be a better idea?

 

[Buttsy]

Again, what would closing it actually achieve? A train in the platform at Polesworth is not a bottleneck because it is on a four track railway.
They would have closed nearby Atherstone five years ago by that logic because it had few trains and hardly any passengers. The serviced got increased and passengers numbers are up something like 5000% since 2007.

Would putting a footbridge back in place at Polesworth station and reopening/rebuilding the up platform giving it a service proper again not be a better idea?

I think that you could actually just build a ramp on the upside down from the road which would negate the need for a footbridge.

 

[swcovas]

You can't just look at passenger numbers, otherwise you'll end up "doing a Beeching".

Broome is very close to Craven Arms. You can walk to Craven Arms within 30 mins.

i take your point though can't say I agree. On that basis you could close Ffirfach because it's only 15 mins to Llandeilo or Bynea because it's only 30 min walk to Llanelli AND it has excellent bus service. And I guess people from Broome WOULDN'T walk to Craven Arms. Such thinking would be a dangerous precedent and is probably MORE "Beeching-like" in its philosophy.

 

[mrcheek]

I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned Birmingham New Street yet. Such an awful place...

But seriously, Weston Milton in Weston-super-Mare has been on the decline since the newer station opened at Worle. All it does is create the occasional bottleneck, as the loop line through Weston is single.

I have also never seem the purpose of Exeter St Thomas station.

 

[Darandio]

But seriously, Weston Milton in Weston-super-Mare has been on the decline since the newer station opened at Worle. All it does is create the occasional bottleneck, as the loop line through Weston is single.

But then recently, numbers are on the rise again for whatever reason.

I have also never seem the purpose of Exeter St Thomas station.

The same here, numbers doubled in a decade.

Of course, passenger numbers don't always tell the whole story.

 

[HSTEd]

Many of these stations could concievably be useful in passenger number terms in 20 years... and the cost of closing them and then reinstating them is probably larger than keeping them open as they are now.

Remember as they are they have all the grandfather rights exemptions...

 

[DarloRich]

No station should ever close, nor should we be advocating closure.

We should be advocating decent services, advertisements and trying to attract custom to the railway, from whatever location

Anyway where do you draw the line once you have closed the little used ones. Where is the next threshold for closure? Why bother with whole lines?

Just close, say, the Bishop Auckland Branch or the Marston Vale branch. What about Cheddington, not many use that really, perhaps Wolverton could go as MK is close by, lets take Northampton out because it is right pita in getting to and from London on LM, Tring doesn't really serve a defined location so that best go etc

At what point have to many stations closed?

 

[CockneySparrow]

Manchester United FC Halt !

Well I suppose its not that busy there on a matchday is it

 

[neilmc]

I don't think any station should be closed, it should be a condition of bidding for a contract to run services in a given area that at leave five services per day are operated in each direction (one in each peak, one late morning, one afternoon and one evening) from EVERY station, with a possible relaxation to three for remote lines such as the Far North. It's shoddy and dishonest to people living in areas with a "station" such as Denton where the TOC can provide one train a week and pretend they are offering a service but aren't prepared to go for formal closure and everything that would entail.

 

[swcovas]

I don't think any station should be closed, it should be a condition of bidding for a contract to run services in a given area that at leave five services per day are operated in each direction (one in each peak, one late morning, one afternoon and one evening) from EVERY station, with a possible relaxation to three for remote lines such as the Far North. It's shoddy and dishonest to people living in areas with a "station" such as Denton where the TOC can provide one train a week and pretend they are offering a service but aren't prepared to go for formal closure and everything that would entail.

I don't think the TOC are pretending to offer a service....they know that it is just a "minimum" requirement, and unless I'm mistaken this predates privatization by some years. But, of course if there was a will, political and business wise, a REAL service could be provided.

 

[londonbridge]

Manchester United FC Halt !

Out of curiosity, has anywhere ever used said "station"? I've been on a train travelling from (and possibly to, I can't remember) MUF, but not west of Piccadilly - some distance from the bit that actually matters.

Yes, twice. Once without incident (although I can't remember why I used the train as I always get the metrolink to OT), the other a few years back when we had the Saturday 5.30 game and the metro was off.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=35036

go to post 82

 

[RPM]

I think it is perhaps a little naive to oppose all station closure on principle. However, I fully agree that it should only be done in very specific circumstances. An example of a valid reason for closure would be where a station is replaced by a better-sited, better-served new station. This has happened in a few places, e.g. Filton being replaced by Filton Abbey Wood or Garston and Allerton being replaced by Liverpool South Parkway.

There are a handful of stations with annual usuage figures that don't ever exceed double figures. These maybe should at least be looked at. Perhaps an increase in the level of service would bring the usage figures up to an acceptable level, or perhaps it wouldn't. It needs to be looked at on a case by case basis. However, if the station is not generating unacceptably high running costs then one might argue that it doesnt even justify the cost of doing the analysis. The closure process is not without cost so it may be simpler to persist with the skeleton service and have done.

 

[Crossover]

About time Norton Bridge was put out of its misery surely? A grand total of no trains at all and a permanent replacement bus service. I would have thought the bus service could be transferred to the local authority and the station then officially closed.

With the proposed development of the track in the area, it could potentially be the death knell for Norton Bridge. It could, however, rise once again from the ashes. That will probably be the decider of its fate

 

[Ivo]

But seriously, Weston Milton in Weston-super-Mare has been on the decline since the newer station opened at Worle. All it does is create the occasional bottleneck, as the loop line through Weston is single.

Better idea: Double the track.

I've never used Milton, although I have used WSM and stood on the platform at Worle. But every time I've seen it, it's been fairly busy. For a large proportion of the town, Milton is the best station. It is close to the business park and close to much of Worle too. It also gives better railway access to Locking and the like by the time bus services are factored in.

And while you're at it, build a new station (with bay platform) at Uphill.

Earlier in the thread it was suggested that Taunton trains should stop at Pilning. Milton is a far better candidate.

I don't think any station should be closed, it should be a condition of bidding for a contract to run services in a given area that at leave five services per day are operated in each direction (one in each peak, one late morning, one afternoon and one evening) from EVERY station, with a possible relaxation to three for remote lines such as the Far North. It's shoddy and dishonest to people living in areas with a "station" such as Denton where the TOC can provide one train a week and pretend they are offering a service but aren't prepared to go for formal closure and everything that would entail.

I'm sorry to say that I can't take this seriously at all. There are plenty of stations out there that have no case for even two trains a day, let alone five. Many of these have already been mentioned; does Berney Arms justify five a day, for instance?

 

[Bevan Price]

Manchester United FC Halt !

And also close the adjacent football ground. Ideal location to extend Trafford Park freight terminal........

 

[The Planner]

With the proposed development of the track in the area, it could potentially be the death knell for Norton Bridge. It could, however, rise once again from the ashes. That will probably be the decider of its fate

Platform stays where it is, it isn't being removed.

 

[cymro inside]

the usage stats for Ty Croes are incorrect as due to a fares anomaly the fare to Bangor (the main destination for Ty Croes passengers) the Rhosneigr to Bangor fare is cheaper than Ty Croes to Bangor so passengers ask for Rhosneigr to Bangor day returns and therefore stats for Rhosneigr are distorted upwards and Ty Croes stats distorted downwards.bus service from Ty croes To Bangor is non existant without a change of bus and takes well over an hour to Bangor compared with 25 mins on train.loads of schoolkids use the train as well as commuters and shoppers,considering that the village is tiny and catchment area is not heavily populated trains are well patronised.

 

[Spaceflower]

LEEDS.

No, seriously, what about Dunston?

 

[Starmill]

I don't think it works like that my friend. If you want a new station somewhere, you don't need to get rid of an existing one first. It's not like swapping football stickers on the school playground.

I really can't see a strong argument for closing any station down. It wasn't that long ago that BR were seriously thinking about shutting Marylebone, it handles well over a million journeys a month these days. I'm not saying everywhere will experience a boom like that, but it just goes to show that we don't know what the future will bring.

Hahah, I remember in an article I once read about how the M180 murdered the A18(M), the third lane of the M180 really does go on for mile after mile where its just not necessary. If only it could be scraped off and put somewhere more deserving of an extra lane!

 

[HowardGWR]

I've never heard of half these rural places - surely it's more expensive to close them down than to leave them as request stops, unmanned, unlit etc.. ?

And no doubt people from that region can provide more rationale as to why they might be popular.

Bird-watchers, ramblers, pub-goers, whatever - there is no reason why country stations can't stay open for leisure-only purposes. Line speeds are usually so rubbish that the penalty will be minimal.

I think the issue you identify (perhaps not intentionally?) is that a mass transit system is not a wonderful idea to transport a few bird watchers and CAMRA members on a Sunday afternoon. On the Yeovil to Weymouth line, there is the opportunity to increase the service to fulfil a proper inter-urban function and the times would benefit greatly. I travelled recently and the train slowed down to a snail's pace at all those stations I mentioned, for no purpose, just in case pax emerged from the 'bus shelter' (they didn't, even though it was peak hour).

Under the current franchise evaluation, it is proposed to increase frequency and journey opportunities. These 'haltes' just get in the way and the line needs doubling and a connection put through to Yeovil Junction on the existing never-used formation.

Weymouth to Exeter anyone?

 

[Parham Wood]

Biased Not that I care.

Out of curiosity, has anywhere ever used said "station"? I've been on a train travelling from (and possibly to, I can't remember) MUF, but not west of Piccadilly - some distance from the bit that actually matters.

Used it in the 70's a few times. Trains rammed full. The only place I have seen people board first generation multiple units through the windows! (That's the sliding ones above the main windows!) Very quick at it they were too. The days of denim jackets and jeans.

After one evening match caught the Liverpool train back from Oxford road which stopped at several stations Manchester side of Warrington. Several large seat cushions went out through the door windows as we went along, the rear cabin was entered and the horn blown repeatedly. BTP were waiting at one stop but they all opened the non platform doors and scarpered across the track to exit via the other platform! They were lucky there was nothing on the other track.......

 

[HowardGWR]

Used it in the 70's a few times. Trains rammed full. The only place I have seen people board first generation multiple units through the windows! (That's the sliding ones above the main windows!) Very quick at it they were too. The days of denim jackets and jeans.

After one evening match caught the Liverpool train back from Oxford road which stopped at several stations Manchester side of Warrington. Several large seat cushions went out through the door windows as we went along, the rear cabin was entered and the horn blown repeatedly. BTP were waiting at one stop but they all opened the non platform doors and scarpered across the track to exit via the other platform! They were lucky there was nothing on the other track.......

Reminds me why I emigrated. Any different now though? Oh, I suppose they can't open the windows to throw the stuff out.