Station pilots

[Gloster]

I understand the flowerpots were fitted to provide extra ballast weight. Were the match trucks another solution to the same problem? - most of the ones I recall worked with 03s with "witches hat" exhausts.

The flower pots were fitted to improve weight distribution. The match trucks were to help with the locos’ activation of track circuits.

 

[xotGD]

I understand the flowerpots were fitted to provide extra ballast weight. Were the match trucks another solution to the same problem? - most of the ones I recall worked with 03s with "witches hat" exhausts.

The Gateshead Flower Pots all ran with match wagons. As noted up thread, these were primarily used to ensure that track circuits were activated.

 

[Lemmy282]

Match trucks were there to ensure the track circuits detected the consist.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I understand the flowerpots were fitted to provide extra ballast weight

That was always my understanding. I now wonder if the flowerpot design came about as a replacement for the conical design, after real time experiences with the operations of D2000-D2032, which (IIRC) included a large number of same being based at Cambridge initially, the first few starting at KX, with other small batches elsewhere, such as LN.

Were the match trucks another solution to the same problem?

Quite possibly, but primarily to ensure track circuit activation was good, which is a weight issue at root cause.

 

[Carbean]

Didn’t Marylebone retain one until remarkably late on(early 90s)?

Think the 08 was for the DMU sheds at end of station which was a residential area, much quieter to move units with one 08 than having all DMU set engines running. I saw it there in 1990. Don’t know if it ever came into the station. Any ideas which depot supplied the 08?

 

[Magdalia]

operations of D2000-D2032, which (IIRC) included a large number of same being based at Cambridge initially, the first few starting at KX,

The Kings Cross allocation was little more than a paper exercise, the locos quickly moved on to Hatfield or Hitchin. The Hatfield locos also shunted at Welwyn Garden City and Luton Bute Street.

The Cambridge locos had some local freight work, including Huntingdon East and Saffron Walden trips.

 

[D6130]

Think the 08 was for the DMU sheds at end of station which was a residential area, much quieter to move units with one 08 than having all DMU set engines running. I saw it there in 1990. Don’t know if it ever came into the station. Any ideas which depot supplied the 08?

IIRC, Old Oak....as the Chiltern lines were part of the Western Region, Reading Division by then. However, the Aylesbury pilot - usually the green-liveried 08 011 "Haversham" (oldest one in service and ex-Wolverton Works pilot) was maintained at Bletchley....as were the first generation Chiltern DMUs of classes 108 & 115. Although they were allocated to ME on paper, the former depot at Marylebone was only a fuelling, cleaning and servicing depot. For C, D & E exams, they had to go to Bletchley.

 

[Gloster]

The only weight diagram that I can find shows a weight in working order on the radiator end and centre wheels of 9 tons 10 cwt and 11 tons 4 cwt on the cab end ones. This diagram shows a a flower pot chimney, so it is possible that the earliest locos had slightly less weight at the front which might (I am no technical expert) make them a bit lively when travelling, and which in turn might bring problems including activating track-circuits.

I read somewhere that it was originally intended to fit copper capped chimneys, but this idea, which emanated from Swindon, was vetoed at a higher level. But Swindon got very near in the end.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

But Swindon got very near in the end

I remember at the end Bath Road had one or two on their books, 382 springs to mind without checking my sources!
But copper capped, no, ugh!

 

[TheHovisKid]

Quite possibly, but primarily to ensure track circuit activation was good, which is a weight issue at root cause.

I think I read somewhere it was length as much as anything? They could momentarily disappear on complex trackwork.

 

[Taunton]

I seem to recall there was a 47 standng for pilot or rescue duties at Reading (General) in the 1970's , we used a spare half hour to scrub some of the dirt off the numbers just to kill time , using available resources from a toilet campartment.

How sad is that ?

When the first Motor Show at the NEC ran in 1978 it had huge publicity, almost a national event, and there were many direct excursions, along with an intensive shuttle from New Street. At International a Class 47 stood pilot in case of need, thrumming away on one side with the most bored-looking crew you can imagine

 

[ChiefPlanner]

When the first Motor Show at the NEC ran in 1978 it had huge publicity, almost a national event, and there were many direct excursions, along with an intensive shuttle from New Street. At International a Class 47 stood pilot in case of need, thrumming away on one side with the most bored-looking crew you can imagine

Talking of the Motor Show - my brother in law was stationed as a BR fitter to stand by at the station , with a road van packed with every conceivable spare available. (he had some quiet , tea drinking shifts !)

 

[Gloster]

I remember at the end Bath Road had one or two on their books, 382 springs to mind without checking my sources!
But copper capped, no, ugh!

From 1972 to 1981 it was D2121 and D2382 (03 121 and 03 382), which were intended for use at Lawrence Hill and on the Avonside Wharf branch. There was a brief appearance at Bath Road in mid-1976 of 03 128 and 03 134, but they only lasted about a fortnight before being withdrawn, so probably didn’t get used.

Sources: Walmsley Parts Seven and Eight, and brdatabase.

 

[Kevin51]

There were normally three 03/04s outbased at Weymouth both on boat trains (until the 33s got warning bell fitments) but also to act as station pilots. During Warship days there were also a small number outbased at Salisbury to aid in the attachment/removal of coaches on the Waterloo-Exeter services.

I think it was 1963 and 1964 went on holiday to the Channel Islands so did the return trip from from the main line to the harbour on two occasions. Illegal car parking was just as bad back then as now with I guess shunting staff clearing parked cars from the track alignment. Must check it out, I think I have a 35mm slide taken from the train of the loco waiting to take the train on to Waterloo. Also interesting that the trains were banked out of Weymouth.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 14:31 ==

34104 Bere Alston. On second thoughts looks like it is backing out of the depot so may be not our train engine.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 15:17 ==

IIRC, Old Oak....as the Chiltern lines were part of the Western Region, Reading Division by then. However, the Aylesbury pilot - usually the green-liveried 08 011 "Haversham" (oldest one in service and ex-Wolverton Works pilot) was maintained at Bletchley....as were the first generation Chiltern DMUs of classes 108 & 115. Although they were allocated to ME on paper, the former depot at Marylebone was only a fuelling, cleaning and servicing depot. For C, D & E exams, they had to go to Bletchley.

When did that happen? I know in the early 50s Aylesbury was a sub shed of the Western Region. Princes Risborough was, I think, always Western region even when Banbury become Midland Region. Aylesbury then became a sub shed of Neasden until closure. Not sure which allocation Aylesbury had after that. Bletchley or Willesden Junc I guess.

 

[Harpo]

Princes Risborough was, I think, always Western region even when Banbury become Midland Region.

The WR/LMR boundaries were Northolt Jn and Aynho junction.

 

[thesignalman]

When did that happen? I know in the early 50s Aylesbury was a sub shed of the Western Region. Princes Risborough was, I think, always Western region even when Banbury become Midland Region. Aylesbury then became a sub shed of Neasden until closure. Not sure which allocation Aylesbury had after that. Bletchley or Willesden Junc I guess.

I can't give you dates, but it was a much unloved railway - nobody wanted it but the staff were fiercely independent and didn't really care. That independence was continued under Chiltern Railways.

The Aylesbury pilot came from Bletchley, like the DMUs, but the Maylebone pilot came from Cricklewood. The latter used to cause a bit of havoc with the unconventional 1923 colour-light signalling with the speed they moved (three-position relays and no standby filaments or detection) and when Marylebone was transferred to the WR for the second time they condemned it on sight simply because they didn't understand how it worked.

Incidentally, the turntable at Marylebone was regularly used right up until the depot closed, because Bletchley would send the units back all higgledy-piggledy; there was no turntable there. There were two ECS workings morning and evening as extensions to the Aylesbury passenger service.

John

PS - Princes Risborough came to the LMR just like the rest.