Station Name-boards

[Western Sunset]

How did passengers know which station they were at, during WW2? Did platform staff shout out the station name when the train stopped?

 

[Trainguy34]

How did passengers know which station they were at, during WW2? Did platform staff shout out the station name when the train stopped?

New thread idea??

 

[Horizon22]

Not everything has to be for the "average" (whatever that may be) or lowest common denominator.

In my experience a good number of regular commuters aren’t aware their stop is coming up before the PIS kicks in.

On some classes the “we will shortly be arriving at…” comes really quite early.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 May 2023 ==

Whether it is or isn’t, they are frequently wrong and you only have to think of the number of times passengers ask others “is this the train for xyz?” To know how much credibility is attached to them. While it would clearly cost a fortune to implement everywhere all at once - it surely wouldn’t be that hard when re-signing is being done anyway (or even just larger running-in boards)

That’s not what is being discussed though. If the train is stopping, you can easily read them.

The OP wants something bigger so it can be read at speed, which isn’t strictly necessary and is very much in the pile of “nice to have”. Also if it’s bigger, at a closer level (i.e a stopping train) it might actually be harder to see.

Distance from the platform & speed of the train plays as big a part as size of the sign.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

I'd suggest there are at least three reasons for providing signs which can be clearly read both from passing and arriving trains

[1] as a backup to automated systems, as already noted by @The exile above (and remembering a Virgin West Coast journey some years ago where every station was announced as Rugby...)

[2] to support the marketing idea that one of the attractions of rail travel is going through places and landscapes that you can see and enjoy en route (clearly not all TOCs or train designers are signed up to this, but some are)

[3] most tangibly for the industry, to advertise places that you can get to by train. Many people in the South-East for example use the train for trips to London, but automatically use the car for everything else. Large clear signs could be effective in promoting (almost subliminally) the possibility of going by train to places in between.

 

[Jim the Jim]

This presumes you know the line well enough to know how close stations are to each other and in what order, but not well enough to recognise them without seeing the nameboard. I imagine this applies to quite a small minority of passengers!

British trains - unlike those in many other countries - are pretty good at letting you know your stop's coming up from inside the train.

 

[YorksLad12]

This is all well and good, but it assumes you're sitting on the left, facing forward. Any other combination and you'll just see the backs of the signs if they're at right-angles. No, we can't afford to make them all double-sided.

(Also assumes you're not on one of Northern's 195s or 331s, or a TPE Mark 5A, where you can't see out of the window anyway because your seat lines up with a pillar.)

 

[LYRobert]

This is all well and good, but it assumes you're sitting on the left, facing forward. Any other combination and you'll just see the backs of the signs if they're at right-angles. No, we can't afford to make them all double-sided.

(Also assumes you're not on one of Northern's 195s or 331s, or a TPE Mark 5A, where you can't see out of the window anyway because your seat lines up with a pillar.)

No it doesn't. You can see the same signage on the opposite platform unless there's a train in the way, and if the lettering were to be on both sides of the board then you can read it going backwards as well.

 

[Bedpan]

The window glass is so smoked nowadays that it's pretty well impossible to see anything out of them once it's got dark however big the station signs are. I remember cpming back to London from Reading a few years ago, decided to go into Waterloo as I hadn't been on a 458 (when they had the flat fronts) before. Complete waste of an hour plus, I was sitting on the right hand side of the train and even stopped at stations it was difficult to discern where we were.

 

[Silenos]

British trains - unlike those in many other countries - are pretty good at letting you know your stop's coming up from inside the train

I have to say this is not my experience. I’ve generally found the onboard information systems and announcements in those European countries I travel in regularly to be at least as good or significantly better than those in the U.K. Danish trains generally even have the announcements in English as well as Danish and the PIS tells you estimated arrival times at the upcoming stations.

 

[The exile]

That’s not what is being discussed though. If the train is stopping, you can easily read them.

The argument was being made that larger type running-in boards are no longer necessary because we have PIS on trains. I was pointing out the general level of credibility that is given to both platform and onboard PIS - everyone believes a “fixed” station sign. I agree that their level of usefulness does not warrant special installation, but should be considered when re-signing is being done anyway. What is poor is the gradual reduction in size of the font on the signs we do have….

 

[Basil Jet]

How did passengers know which station they were at, during WW2? Did platform staff shout out the station name when the train stopped?

Bushey & Oxhey had just the town names blacked out, so the station was nicknamed "&" for years after the war.

 

[Ant158]

One issue now on many trains, during night time travel is that the interior lighting is far too bright white which makes it impossible to see any signage on platforms! Larger clearer signs might help this.

 

[zwk500]

One issue now on many trains, during night time travel is that the interior lighting is far too bright white which makes it impossible to see any signage on platforms! Larger clearer signs might help this.

How does larger signs change the relative lighting level? It'd have to be a bloody big sign to have mass enough to start deflecting light to a noticeable degree. The issue is that the carriage is brighter than outside so the window is reflective. Having a large billboard isn't any better if you can't see anything through the window anyway.

 

[Ant158]

How does larger signs change the relative lighting level?

Was thinking more Station signs should be backlit so can be seen at night, especially at smaller stations

 

[zwk500]

Was thinking more Station signs should be backlit so can be seen at night, especially at smaller stations

You would need to floodlight them, substantially. The neighbours would be pleased.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Identifying your location is not helped by having to extract the station name from irrelevant verbiage.

 

[zwk500]

Identifying your location is not helped by having to extract the station name from irrelevant verbiage.

I don't really have a problem with the Newbury one - the sign is nice and clear and the advert is clearly distinctive from it. It'd be nice if the station sign was noticeably larger than the advert, but overall it's a 7/10.
The Northampton one is shocking though. The colours across both sign and advert clash horribly and the font is way too narrow.

 

[Fyldeboy]

I think a line needs to be drawn between the romanticism of of a rail journey, with trains sweeping through stations and ideally pulled by something designed by Gresley or Stanier and the practical operation of the 21st century railway. The 'needs' listed by OP apply to a limited number of passengers but are already satisfied by a number of means - PIS, Google Maps, Traksy etc etc.

I understand the emotions of seeing that you're passing through "Little Fishwallop" are not the same as seeing it on an app but thats not the railways purpose - its primary purpose is A - B

As an aside, I suspect air turbulance from passing trains would cause 90° signs to deteriorate more quickly.

 

[Lewisham2221]

To know if your stop is coming up soon perhaps, then you can start to make preparations especially if its complicated (young family for example).

Scheduled arrival time, watch/phone/PIS with the current time. Job done. Probably an easier method than one of said family having to somehow recognise that they are approaching a station, to ensure that they are looking out of the window at exactly the right place and time to catch a glimpse of a perpendicular station name sign at 100mph

 

[The exile]

On a practical note - any ideas just how much extra it would cost to install larger platform-end running-in boards when resigning is being done anyway -based on the assumption that existing supports can be used?

 

[LAX54]

Surely you have to know where the station is in the first place to be looking out of the window, and the exact right moment as you fly through the station at 100/125mph ?

 

[Taunton]

As an aside, I suspect air turbulence from passing trains would cause 90° signs to deteriorate more quickly.

Wayside stations in the USA have always had their signs at 90 degrees to the line, without this issue.

 

[John R]

I’m firmly in the camp that this “need” is spurious. If someone wants to have plenty of time to alight then they can do any or more than one of the following:-
1) look at their watch/phone, setting an alarm a couple of minutes before arrival time if necessary
2) listen out for announcements and watch the PIS screens
3) start to gather their things when the train begins slowing
4) follow their position on their phone map, which will be accurate enough for this purpose.

The number of people who would benefit from the suggested change (in terms of helping them be ready to alight) would be minuscule, and it would be a complete waste of money that the railway doesn’t have.

 

[YorksLad12]

Not to mention that some stations will have platforms narrower than their names. And not just *that* one in Wales.

 

[NSE]

I’ve never had a problem seeing the station names in the current layout when passing through. If I’m on a new route and there is something I want to see (junction or depot etc) and i’m not sure if it’s right after station A or before station B then I’ll often check Google Maps to make sure. As posters have said above, many commuters have no idea where they are and rely on the PIS and wouldn’t even notice if new signs were put on passing stations. This is a need solely to satisfy enthusiasts. Yeah, would be nice, but nothing more.

 

[ruaival]

On the East Coast Main Line passing non-stop through Durham is signified by a distinctive wiggle in the line of the track. Easy to tell where you are in the dark.

 

[Jimini]

Nuneham viaduct was easy to 'spot' in the dark for a good year or so...

 

[LYRobert]

Not to mention that some stations will have platforms narrower than their names. And not just *that* one in Wales.

They don't have to be actually on the platform. Some that I know of in Europe are a little distance away from the platform end where there's more room.

 

[Bantamzen]

I’m firmly in the camp that this “need” is spurious. If someone wants to have plenty of time to alight then they can do any or more than one of the following:-
1) look at their watch/phone, setting an alarm a couple of minutes before arrival time if necessary
2) listen out for announcements and watch the PIS screens
3) start to gather their things when the train begins slowing
4) follow their position on their phone map, which will be accurate enough for this purpose.

The number of people who would benefit from the suggested change (in terms of helping them be ready to alight) would be minuscule, and it would be a complete waste of money that the railway doesn’t have.

Indeed, there are very few people who rely solely on station boards to let them their where they are in relation to their destination stop. PIS systems are there to do this, messages such as "In a few minutes we will be arriving at ...." on faster services, and "We will shortly be arriving at..." for slower services should be more than sufficient. Given the number of distractions during travelling that could cause someone to miss their stop because they were relying on prior station signs, I'd be loath to be the one authorising the spend at over 2,000 stations on the off-chance that it might benefit a few rail enthusiasts.

And besides, can you imagine the bun fight on here if it were to become a thing. They'll be in the wrong place, be the wrong size, colour, font, angle to passing trains, they get in the way of photographers....

 

[TreacleMiller]

If I can read them at 100mph+ without my glasses, I'm sure most can.

Theres no "need" here at all but I do get what you're saying.

If you do, want to know where you are in this "lost in the journey" sort of way then why not try out a route map? You might find it quite pleasurable to tick off things as you by...

Signs are meant to be visible on platforms when at stations, not through stations. That's why they are as they are.